Tremor Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 I'm sure we all come accross them but it's so frustrating when an otherwise brilliant tune for some reason just will not mix in time with other tunes. I have just found this with Red Light District - Did You Hear Me (Phaze II Mix). It's not that the beat goes out of time but the bars are all out of synch. It hasn't been made in the usual 4 bar, 8bar, 16 bar etc structure. The beat changes on the 3rd bar out of 4 for example so the intro just sounds rubbish in the mix. It sounds like you have dropped it in the wrong place whatever happens. I managed to get it to mix and sound OK with Ayla - Ayla (DJ Taucher Mix) just by bringing it in at a place where all the random bar structure wasn't so noticeable. But then I had the whole problem all over again when mixing out of the tune since a standard intro with beats mixing out will then sound like it's been dropped wrong as well but it is because of the structure of Red Light District. Tried mixing 2 different tunes in and same problem both times. It's so annoying. It seems a common problem with tunes of that age. You really need to know every tune so precisely. Some have to be dropped on the 2nd beat or a beat early also due to random beats being missed (ie. Storm - Storm on the positiva pressing). It makes it very difficult to just do an off-the-cuff classics set as you are bound to mess something up if all the fine details havn't been planned for. Mixing a current trance set I tend to be able to get away with just bunging the tracks together in any order and while the flow wont always be right, the mixing will generally always work because the tunes all have the same structure. Anyone else feel my frustration and what tunes do you have problems with? Goodness knows how Jules played all these tunes back then and seemingly always pulled the mixing off back then. Yet somehow it's now that his mixing has started to fall apart! Makes no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milkybarkid Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Re the Ayla and Red Light mixing together; did you just discover that yourself? Kudos if you did, coz that's exactly how Jules fits them on the Clubbers Guide cd! (Ibiza 99 I think). I know exactly what you mean, Dj Taucher is notorious for it, I could never figure out how to mix in Bizzare. I remember that Positiva vinyl aswell, I let it go two beats early (or late) if i remember right, it was fine then. Ratty Sunrise was another that was messed up to bring in. Don't dj anymore, but I presume it's a bit easier now digitally to mark a certain point or edit out a bit when burning the cd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonman Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 one tune like this that i think of immediately is Guru Josh Project "Infinity 2008" (Klaas Mix). I got this before it got signed, so i dont know if it was ever corrected, but the mix out point, the bars are all over the place. You have to "offset" by 2 bars so it all falls into place. I fell foul of this whilst playing a few times last year. Tracks which start one bar off are annoying aswell. Tunes i hate mixing though, are ones where the bass line starts at the first beat. A recent example of this is the Sidney Samson "Riverside" (now huuuuge at last!) track. The Lange Mix of Ian Van Dahl "Will I" was another example of that. Of course we all know fade in/outs are the most unfriendly type of tunes for us DJ's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tremor Posted November 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Re the Ayla and Red Light mixing together; did you just discover that yourself? Kudos if you did, coz that's exactly how Jules fits them on the Clubbers Guide cd! (Ibiza 99 I think). Well I actually did the mix the other way round. Ayla first into red light district. On that CD Jules mixes red light district first and then into ayla. I can see now why he does it because ayla has no beats in the first part of the intro and he kinda sneaks that little meoldy in without any beat clashes. But you can see my point about how all that had to be thought out. If Jules recorded that CD in one take (which is quite likely back then) off vinyl as well then fair play to him for getting all the mixes spot on. I thought I'd try the mix the other way round to mix red light in... and it kinda works. The version of ayla I have is the extra long version with a really long intro that builds with the melody so I wanted to use this as the first track in a set. Having screwed the mix into and then out of red light district I soon gave up on recording that set.. shame as I had some great tunes in mind. It's just gonna take a lot more patience and planning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonB Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 I've got a few records where the tracks have the first beat missing , its annoying as I forget every time, ones that come to mind system f-cry extended mix and rhythm of life- thrillseekersmix Other than that can't think of anything, unless you count Guru Josh-Inifinity the original sane mix which is like 20 bars the main sax part of the track, that can be a bugger... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aza Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 The tunes above certainly ring bells for me too and you have to find yourself having to think twice to work out whether you drop it a beat late, which when you mix almost without thinking about it, can prove a little difficult at times :s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Storm - Storm had a beat missing at the beginning. Storm - Time To Burn has a randomly sequenced outro which throws the mix out. Yves Deruyter - Back To Earth (Rave Mix) - Can't remember what, but I know there's something odd about that too. Push - Strange World (2000 remake) - A right bitch to mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonB Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Push - Strange World (2000 remake) - A right bitch to mix. Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number2Fan Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 I can NEVER get Choral reef to mix with anything, I just can't hear it through my headphones enough to cue it up!! I dunno why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milkybarkid Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 I seem to remember James Zabelia/Holden* saying they purposely made the BPM slightly slower or faster during the dropout of a few tracks, just to see if a dj had an ear to recognise it and screw with them. Hated mixing with Fridge, Paradise too. Wierd, hard to mix beat, and it ended on a crescendo that just keeps getting louder. Impossible. *Disclaimer; I could be a mile out saying those names, thats off the top of my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number2Fan Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 I love Fridge tunes!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aza Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Recent I also recall Beat Pusher's Murto rather difficult as it's got quite a breakbit style to it and it's into is more of a riff - but does work with the volume on quite high Also my only favorite Fatkid tune - Souther Sun - must have had a bad pressing or something - the beats just don't hold - they speed up and down and I never can lock 'em! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milkybarkid Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 I love Fridge tunes!! Me too! I actually think Paradise is a better tune than Angel, but that's just my two cents. It just shows you how good these tunes were, that even though they drove us mad, nothing was gonna stop us mixing them into a set. I don't know if I would show the same perseverance today though. I don't think a producer would dare allow a tune out unless it was technically perfect, for fear of it being cast aside without a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 I can NEVER get Choral reef to mix with anything, I just can't hear it through my headphones enough to cue it up!! I dunno why. I used to struggle with that. Its because it kicks in really early and drowns everything out. I tend to mix it into tunes that have long, drummy outros with not much else going on now - and it works fine then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tremor Posted November 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Storm - Time To Burn has a randomly sequenced outro which throws the mix out. Yves Deruyter - Back To Earth (Rave Mix) - Can't remember what, but I know there's something odd about that too. Push - Strange World (2000 remake) - A right bitch to mix. Good examples there. I think Yves Deruyter has a random bar thrown in just before the outro but if you forget about it and start mixing out early it screws the mix. It's easily done as once the blippy bit in the middle is over there isn't much more of the tune to wait for as it were so it is always tempting to start mixing straight from there. Time to burn you have to drop the tune mixing out in an odd place but that was such a fave of mine that I still remember exactly how to mix out of it. It rarely catches me out. Push is also hard as it starts with the main tune going from the first beat pretty much meaning it clashes with almost anything you mix it with and also it sounds awful if you have to make an adjustment as the pitch bend is so obvious. Great tune if you can pull it off though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tremor Posted November 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Speaking of Fridge tunes Im not sure I've ever even tried to mix paradise! Angel on the other hand is another tricky one to mix as it has that little build up for the first 4 bars with no real beat. Thing is if you just drop it from the first beat there is not much intro left to mix with. It's always one of those tense moments in a mix as you just hope the beat will kick in in time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonman Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 and rhythm of life- thrillseekersmix oh god yes! a great tune, but isnt it a bar out or something. Highly annoying. There was something about the last half sequence of Ferry Corsten "Rock Your Body Rock" too, which made it annoying to mix out of. David Forbes "Questions", i remember that being awkward to mix into, as were some of Darren Tates bigger productions which had really short intros to them, meaning they dropped into the main part of the tune after about 30 seconds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number2Fan Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 This is a good thread, coz I never ever thought it might be the tunes fault that I can't mix it!! lolol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberduck Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Storm - Storm had a beat missing at the beginning. Storm - Time To Burn has a randomly sequenced outro which throws the mix out. Yves Deruyter - Back To Earth (Rave Mix) - Can't remember what, but I know there's something odd about that too. Push - Strange World (2000 remake) - A right bitch to mix. Yep I agree too. Funny how three such successful tracks have been identified as being really awkward to mix. Could never get my head around what was with Back to Earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim451 Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 Fingers Burnt - Act Your Age Not Your Shoe Size is a tough one to mix into. It's got that long instumental intro & then it just kicks straight in with the bassline & it just doesn't sit nicely with other tracks. I don't think I've ever successfully mixed into it. A lot of F&W's tracks / remixes all kick straight in with the bass too which makes them annoying to mix into. DJ Elite - That Fuct Camera had something about it but I can't place my finger on what it was. Oliver Klein - Rhinekraft is annoying too. Even if I drop it on the first actual beat it still seems to be in the wrong place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 DJ Elite - That Fuct Camera had something about it but I can't place my finger on what it was. Yeah, that one started off with the bloke talking for a few seconds & then the beat would gradually appear in the background. I used to cue the needle to where the first cymbal sound was (just after the vocal finished at the start) & it seemed to mix fine from there... Jon The Dentist - Alcohol is one that springs to mind for me. There was a part about 30secs - 1 min in where you had a short vocal sample & then the beat would suddenly kick in again & throw the mix out of sequence. Another one of those where you would have to start the tune a few beats early/late Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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