The 'yes men' syndrome.

[Number2Fan]

I was thinking this week about how hard it must be when you achieve greatness, not to end up surrounding yourself by yes men. The thought occurred to me after Mrs O R removed me from her facebook for asking her if 'she skanked' at Judgements. I was referring to her recent attempt at vocals to dubstep of course, but she clearly misunderstood. Not that I'm bothered, but it made me think.

When Jules hit bigtime he could do no wrong in many peoples eyes and anyone else hated him. There could be no inbetween. I think that after having people be either end of the scale it must be easy to confuse genuine fans giving ( what they believe to be ) constructive criticism with regular old haters who just love to email you about how crap they think you are. The other emails, letters and comments you recieve are all complimentary and grateful, so you ignore the not so good ones and concentrate on nicer ones. Whether they're from people with taste or loyalty probably makes no difference to you. Same with the friends you surround yourself with, they say they love your work albeit for their own gain, and anyone who says different is rejected. So they either say nice things or f*** off. The end result is obviously the quality of work you put out. But what can you do?

It's unlikely you'd surround yourself with people you think don't like you isn't it?

What I'm saying is, once you achieve greatness, maybe it's inevitable you'll end up in the same situation as Jules has. Unless you just quit while you're ahead, perhaps the only way to go once you reach the top is DOWN!!

[Max Kane]

This is a huge problem for anyone who achieves anything like the success Jules has and (more relevant imo) when bands get really big.

The world is full of people losing touch with that which made them great in the first place.

I think Jules could roll up and play whatever the hell he wanted now, those more into the 'serious' side of trance music have given up on him (anything other than a dissapointment is a bonus) and his general fanbase love the cheesy nonsense he now purveys.

[Briggsy]

This is a huge problem for anyone who achieves anything like the success Jules has and (more relevant imo) when bands get really big.

The world is full of people losing touch with that which made them great in the first place.

I think Jules could roll up and play whatever the hell he wanted now, those more into the 'serious' side of trance music have given up on him (anything other than a dissapointment is a bonus) and his general fanbase love the cheesy nonsense he now purveys.

Agreed! ^^

I can understand the ears going over time - which is probably why most of the older DJs that have been a round for a while struggle with beatmatching now - but you never lose the ability to know what tunes compliment the next, how to build a set, etc.

The Jules from 10-12 years ago was superb - his sets flowed really well. His mixes were well thought out. They were also long and smooth - and he had a 'risky' mixing style that sounded genius when he pulled it off. He also had a good ear for a tune.

These days, he's the opposite. His sets don't have any flow at all. You've only got to listen to his online mixes to hear him mix an uplifting Trance track into a hard Techno tune, followed by a pitched-up Proggy tune, followed by some Sander van Doorn-esque Tech-Trance. They're all over the place.

His mixes are 30 seconds long if you're lucky, and the risk element has gone. Jules simply takes the 'play it safe' approach and mixes intro into outro each time rather than taking the risks he did 10-12 years ago by mixing on a build-up or slamming in a tune straight after a breakdown or just generally keeping the energy going constantly throughout his sets (His Creamfields 2002 mix is a perfect example of his energetic 'in ya face' sets).

As Tom said, I think he's got to the point where he knows he can just turn up and do as he pleases - and still get re-booked again in the future, so he doesn't put the effort into it - which is a great shame because on the very odd occasion, a glimpse of the old Jules will show through - like it did when I saw him at the Ministry of Sound 2 years ago. He came on around 4am, played an old Picotto/BXR-esque set, mixed brilliantly, made his set flow well, stayed clear of any dodgy bootlegs or 'Somebody sreeeeeeeam' gimmicks and he was thoroughly enjoyable. When I saw him a month later, he was dire again.

In a way, I really wish he'd leave/get sacked from Radio 1 now. I feel that he's getting bookings simply because he's a household name through that so he doesn't put the effort in. I think that if he left Radio 1, his career would go one of two ways - he'll either have to start putting the effort back in again to cling on to his career - or he'll go into freefall and his career will take a sudden dive. Unfortunately, I feel it would be the latter - especially now that he doesn't seem to get many bookings by the 'credible' brands such as Godskitchen, Passion, etc. He'll end up playing the Luminar chain-owned type venues during the winter, and playing the commercial european holiday clubs such as BCM in Majorca and Tramps in Tenerife during the summer.

[Number2Fan]

But do you think it's inevitable to go this way once you reach as high as you can get. I do get the impression Jules is unaware of what's happening/happened to him, simply because there are still so many people saying he's awesome. All that entourage behind him at the decks when he plays those jingles must be agreeing with him on them. Although none of them would do it themselves. That, or he knows they're wank and is basically taking the right piss out of the crowd.

"look I can fart on the mike and people still dance to it"

[Max Kane]

I think it's a bit of both.

Jules seems totally commited to what he plays and I think Briggsy said that when he has emailed him about he gets the 'it worked well and the crowd loved it' reply.

I guess Tristan and others could be telling him that and making him feel like it was better than it really was (he could be telling himself this too).

I don't think it automatically happens but it is widespread. PvD had a really cheesy phase (seems to be back on a bit more now), Tiesto has lost his mind and sold out (though he seems to have done this through choice) and Armin is getting more and more cheesy and commercially orientated.

Paradoxically though look at guys like Sasha & Digweed - they are more reverred now than ever and are still pioneers, though I guess they have always been more underground in their thinking. Ferry Corsten has maintained credibility throughout too - even his LEF sound wasn't that cheesy and commercial and he has always retained his focus on proper trance music, even when he was working with Simon Le Bon

[Max Kane]

Side note: isn't it great to have an active debate thread without needless digression!

[Number2Fan]

I think Jules just loves playing music to people and I don't suppose he cares who or how many. I don't think he ever set out to become the almost god like figure he became, (there were no superstar DJs att) it was all just about playing music he liked to people who enjoyed it. So I suppose he still is doing that. And if he moves on to the chain owned clubs he will still be doing what he loves, so perhaps the things that made him great to us, simply don't matter all that much to him.

And yeah even as a long term fan I have emailed and mentioned certain aspects that weren't good, I never got replies to those emails.

[Briggsy]

The sad thing about Jules is that it doesn't seem like he's intentionally gone down the route of being appealing only to the Luminar Leisure type of clientelle - I think its happened natually simply because he plays really bad choices in tunes/bootlegs and he seems totally unaware of the negativity he's creating on the more 'clued-up' dancefloors - he seems deluded. On every DJ forum you go on where Jules is mentioned on a line-up, you can guarantee there will be pages of replies saying "Why have <insert brand here> booked Jules again? He's crap".

As Tom said, whenever you email Jules or read his diary, it always says "and the crowd seemed really up for it". The one stand-out night for me was Gatcrasher @ Magna around three years ago. I was there that night, and the night was flowing really well with every DJ playing good sets. Then Jules came on - his set was all over the place and he started doing out-of-time loops and his dodgy 'scratching' over the breakdowns of tunes. Within 20 minutes of him being on, the room was half full and those that remained were giving each other odd looks and saying "what the hell is this". A few weeks later, Jules mentioned that gig in his diary and came out with his usual line of "The crowd were really up for it".

Well I was there - and they certainly weren't. Half of the room emptying tells a story!

Even when you disregard the dodgy bootlegs and poor set flow and just take his 'scrathing' into account - why? Why on earth does Jules feel the need to scratch? He's never been able to do it, and still can't 10 years later. He's no Halliwell or Carl Cox - so why does he still have phases where he feels the need to try this dodgy scratching? Surely he must realise that he can't do it. It really baffles me!

Once upon a time, when you were having a poor night at an event because the DJs were below par, etc, you could always guarantee that Jules could come on and turn it around. Now he's the opposite - when you're having a good night, you just know that Jules is going to be the one that brings the tempo down or play awful tunes and just generally kill the night.

[Number2Fan]

This is what I'm saying though, I agree with what you said, but in Jules' defence he has always had people on MSG boards, emails etc saying 'oh no not Jules' and it must be hard then to differentiate between people who just like to diss you, and the people who actually care and are just reviewing your latest set/tunes.

How do you avoid surrounding yourself with people who agree with you. Must be difficult?

[Max Kane]

How do you avoid surrounding yourself with people who agree with you. Must be difficult?

People that become your friend through your fame/success and are after nothing more than being a 'hanger-on' will bring you down.

You need to have trust and faith in those that were present before you 'made it' and also stay grounded in reality.

Sure there will always be some people who slag you, but instead of sweeping it under the carpet (I'm talking to YOU Above & Beyond) by banning them from forums and ignoring them, try to listen to what they say.

Often it's easy to tell the difference between a true fan giving a constructive criticism and a 'hater' slagging you for no good reason.

That said if Jules is enjoying himself, likes the sound he now plays and is still coining it in then who are we to argue with him and tell him what to do?

[Number2Fan]

Your last paragraph there really sums it up I guess.

Must admit I'd be happy to be in the position he's in.

What happened with Above and Beyond?

[Max Kane]

What happened with Above and Beyond?

They have undergone a huge change in sound (aimed squarely at Radio 1 airplay and commercial success). If anyone remotely criticises this on their forum they start PMing people telling them not to and then ban if they persist.

Their message board used to be a great place to interact and I got to know a lot of good people from there but now the only ones who post on there are fanboys who spout the #trancefamily bollocks proclaiming A&B as 'gods' and talking about when they last cried to the breakdown of 'No-One On Earth'.

Thankfully the former loyal members founded the Unjuna boards (get it?) which are fantastic

[Number2Fan]

Sounds like a familiar scenario

this is another subject I've mulled over only I had Nero in mind. Who can blame them really, the more money you bring in and the larger numbers in your fanbase have got to be tempting. When Radio 1 say 'let's do this' it's gotta be tempting, i dunno if I would say no in their shoes either.

[Max Kane]

If artists 'sold out' in certain ways but retained their core crowd and adherred to their own principles then fine.

I had no problem with the old trance acts putting an awful cheesy vocal over the top of a track in order to gain airplay and success, think Riva 'Stringer' with Danii MInogue 'singing' on it!

BUT

When the artist in question plays out; tracks like that should not be in their set, how many times did anyone hear the vocal version of 'Stringer' in a club?

It's different with a band/group who play their live act as they obviously have to play the material that gets people in but with DJs it's different for me. Above & Beyond didn't just make one track with R1 plays in mind; they made a whole album and adopted a whole new ethos aimed at getting them there.

[Max Kane]

I guess a reasonable example is rappers; Snoop Dogg guests on anybody's track if they pay him the wedge, (think Katy Perry, Justin Timberlake, etc) but when he plays his own shows he doesn't play these tracks as he knows his audience wants to hear his own hip-hop tracks which have a certain (mass produced and commercially focused I admit) 'real' feel to them and are a little more credible

[Briggsy]

and is still coining it in then

I think this is the biggest problem to be honest - the money! I blame the DJ Mag poll for ruining the scene over the past few years. Not so long ago, DJs just played their sets, did what they usually do in the clubs, and as a result, got big bookings based on that.

These days, ever since Tiesto won it and Djs/Producers have seen how much can be earnt from the title (or even being in the top 10), they've all tried to reach the same heights by releasing chart hits, making their sets cross over to the commercial market to cater for both the commercial and 'proper' club scene, start their own 'brands' and labels, etc.

I think this is where Jules has gone wrong - he's crossed over so much to cater for the commercial side that he's forgotten about what made him so popular in the first place. Jules used to be able to adapt his style based on where he was playing - but now, he turns up at every venue with the same tunes, and with the intention of playing those voiceovers. What on earth made Jules think "I know, I'll start adding radio-esque voiceovers to my sets"? No other DJ uses them. No other DJ has ever posted comments on Facebook or forums asking whether people feel they should use them - so why did Jules go for it? Sure, they might be great for small bars where people just want to hear tunes and have a piss up - but he played them at Passion a few months ago. A venue that has probably the 3rd most clued up crowd in the country after Digital Society and The Gallery.

Jules was ranked number 2 DJ in the world after Paul Oakenfold. Back then, Jules just got on with it - doing what he did best. Over time, other DJs came along to overtake him, and to try to claw his way back, he's tried to pull in a commercial crowd by releasing albums, playing bootlegs that feature chart artists such as Tinie Tempah and Leona Lewis and playing awful "somebody screeeeem" voiceovers. If he took 3 months out, took a look back at his career and went back to doing what he did years ago, then he could claw his way back sensibly. And I believe that he could do that if he took things more seriously again - after all, his set at the Ministry of Sound that he did around 18 months - 2 years ago proved that he can still pull an amazing set out of the bag when he really puts his mind to it.

[Max Kane]

I think the demise (commercially) of trance music has led to a lot of this commercialisation (selling out) as artists have had to adapt their sounds to what they think people want to hear.

The crowd from '99 or whenever you were enjoying Jules has moved on and the new breed seem to lap up this shit

[Briggsy]

The crowd from '99 or whenever you were enjoying Jules has moved on and the new breed seem to lap up this shit

God knows why. As you say, its shit.

Its nearly DJ Mag Top 100 time isn't it? Not long to go then before we see the Swedish House Mafia go straight up to number 3 or 4 then thanks to the shit they've been churning out. A&B should move up another place too. :pinkman:

[Max Kane]

It's been the case for a long, long time that the DJ Mag results mean jack shit. As I have stated in other threads they're just a flavour of the month/who's the best producer/who can whore themself out the best competition. It means f*** all to anyone with the remotest interest in clubbing yet seems to dictate everything overseas.

Sod it - I no longer care haha - I pick and choose my club nights and very few of them revolve around trance anymore

[milkybarkid]

You know what I find highly ironic (or maybe sad on reflection), is that a man who's an been a radio dj for fifteen odd years, has been weekly on the main national radio station for over a decade, and is therefore one of the most listened to, and recognisable voices in dance, feels the need to gee up a crowd with a pre-made cd he got some dude to shout slogans into. Surely picking up the mic and saying a few words word have more of an effect than that shite, especially when you've forged a career with your voice a major part of it?

[Max Kane]

There's no excuse for the vocal loops and cheesy samples - surely even a 12 year old would find them cringeworthy :rubbish:

[Briggsy]

You know what I find highly ironic (or maybe sad on reflection), is that a man who's an been a radio dj for fifteen odd years, has been weekly on the main national radio station for over a decade, and is therefore one of the most listened to, and recognisable voices in dance, feels the need to gee up a crowd with a pre-made cd he got some dude to shout slogans into.

They don't even gee up the crowd though - from the couple of times i've witnessed when I had the misfortune of seeing him when he's played them, they've had absolutely no impact at all. I really don't get the point of them - and why Jules continues to use them.

[Max Kane]

The 'somebody scream' things seem to be a direct 'yes man' inovation.

Someone has obviously told him that they work and continues to do so

[Number2Fan]

I've definitely told him they don't.

Perhaps his hearing is as shot as mine and he HAS to rely on the yes men. Maybe with bad hearing those shit tunes sound better. It's such a shame coz the electro set he done at GG last year had it's cheesy aspects but was very interactive and personal feeling, early in the afternoon and I felt it worked well. But I never heard a single good word about his big GK set, and he's not there this year.

[Briggsy]

Someone has obviously told him that they work and continues to do so

Yep, and I bet its the same person that filters out all the good tunes and lets all the bootlegs through

Cheese - if his ears are that shot, he should call it a day. I don't think dodgy hearing can be blamed for making him think that Tinie Tempah bootlegs will work at 'The Gallery' anyway.