Briggsy Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Well, the current government have been in for just over a year - and we don't really seem to be any further forward. The deficit hasn't been reduced anywhere near as much as they told us it would be - and there seems to be strikes all over the place at the moment. Do you think the country is in a better shape than it was a year ago? A worse shape? Not really changed? Personally, I think we've gone nowhere over the past 12 months - we're in the same situation as we were this time last year - only with lots of disgrunted people striking, and low morale due to all the uncertainty. There have been lots of cuts to the armed forces, police, fire services, etc - which doesn't really seem to have done anything other than annoy hard working people. I still think it was for the best that Labours era ended - however, i'm not sure that the current bunch are doing things the right way either? To me, it seems like they just came into power and went at things all "gung-ho" - rather than coming into power, easing into it for 3 or 4 months and then making cuts on a "priority" basis - starting with all the wastage (unnecessary civil servants, all the unnecessary managers over managers within the NHS, etc). To go in from day one and make severe "cut-throat" cuts was always going to lower morale and start the "same old Tories" thoughts amongst the short-sighted Labour supporters. What are your thoughts? How do you think things should have been done (or should be done from now on)? Personally, I think they should have just done things a lot slower, less "aggressively", and dealt with cuts bit-by-bit on a priority basis. All of the leaders concern me to be honest at the moment - Cameron looks far too strained/stressed for someone that has only been in the job for a year. Clegg comes across as a complete moron simply because he tries far too hard. He's a media man. As for Milliband - well, he's awful. He seems quite immature and short sighted - and he's non-existant during debates. He's far too weak. Its a good job William Hague isn't still leader of the Conservatives - he'd make mincemeat of Milliband. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Kane Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 I don't want to air my full views (I type enough at work) but I agree with quite a few aspects of your post. There was no need to be so aggresive in cutting the deficit - every country in the developed world has a massive deficit (with the exception of Norway) and they live with it. By all means it does need reducing but some of the draconian measuresbeing enforced are little short of lunacy! The pensions row has really annoyed me (it would do in my line of work) as the government are trying to bully people into working a lot longer and for less pension when they do (eventually!) retire. The perception of the government is pretty weak - this coalition business is not working, in terms of public opinion and trust. The opposition is about as weak as it has been for as long as I can remember but they may do well due to the fact that the Lib Dems are surely as lowly as they will ever get & the fact that the Tories are massively unpopular. By the way don't blame me for this - I voted for The Green Party Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number2Fan Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 IMO I can say that I've gone from just about getting by, to struggling very hard, making my own cuts to cope with the higher food bill, which has gone up 50% so as I couldn't keep up with that and afford the higher petrol cost I am struggling. Neither of our wages went up, and the companies we both work for are struggling too so no extra hours are available and job security feels quite uncertain. My rent went up too, and my tax credit ( you get for being working parents ) had a 50% cut, my daughters bus pass has doubled in price. So personally we're eating alot less, walking alot more and have no spare income whatsoever to enjoy life. In fact if we were to lose our jobs I'd probably be richer for the benefits of free school dinners for 3 kids £30 a week, free prescriptions as I'm on longterm medication, free dentists, rent and council tax paid. I'm really not putting on how hard things are atm. And how hard it is also to see any light at the end of the tunnel. I know we have a deficit, but the bankers still had 14 billion pounds in bonuses, we sent alot of money in aid to the third world, there's less jobs, less police and my daughter is priced out of the uni Market despite me making some provisions for this. I'm not too bothered for myself, but it's the affect on my children it has with their schooling, with their experiences in childhood, with the quality of food they eat. But, whether people on here like me saying this or not, this is exactly what I expected from a Tory government, it's pretty much what happened before to the likes of myself. I'm not saying Labour were a dreamboat, but I much preferred our prospect with them, and this coalition government has about as much LibDem input as a bowl a prunes does. I would vote Labour. A slower resolve of the deficit issue, and a better life for my children would be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted July 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 There was no need to be so aggresive in cutting the deficit - every country in the developed world has a massive deficit (with the exception of Norway) and they live with it. By all means it does need reducing but some of the draconian measuresbeing enforced are little short of lunacy! Agree 100%. As long as the deficit wasn't spiralling deeper out of control like it was under Labour, then there wasn't any need for such drastic action. All it needed was some 'steadying of the ship' by cutting out the waste - and then monitored to ensure that things stay that way. The pensions row has really annoyed me (it would do in my line of work) as the government are trying to bully people into working a lot longer and for less pension when they do (eventually!) retire. I agree to some extent - however, some of those that are striking now (such as some of those Birmingham council workers) are only doing so because they've always had a fairly cushy number doing a relatively easy job, earning a higher-than-average salary and had the luxury of being able to retire at 55. Now the government have said "enough is enough chaps, its time you got with the real world and you'll have to work to 67 like everyone else). They're striking because they've been greedy/lucky for years - and have now been told to live like the rest of us. I don't have any sympathy for those at all. I do sympathise with those that have had a 'proper' job though and are now going to have to re-adjust through no fault of their own. I know you work within the NHS - correct me if i'm wrong, but from what I understand, they have a really unique and bizarre "rob Peter to pay Paul" system that was flawed from the very start in that the money that you pay into the NHS "pension pot" now is actually being used to pay those that retired years ago. When you come to collect your pension, the money you get will be money they'll be collecting from the NHS workers that are working at that time? I think the problem they're having is that when it comes to your retirement age, there won't be as much money in the "pension pot" then as there is now - so there's a big black hole that they've got to sort out. From my understanding, this isn't any recent governments fault - it goes right back to the very beginning when nobody really thought about people living longer and retiring later 30/40/50 years down the line when the NHS pensions scheme was introduced. This is what I understand from the little i've read about it. The perception of the government is pretty weak - this coalition business is not working, in terms of public opinion and trust. This is true. I'm not really sure what the best solution would be either because Labour cannot be trusted to look after the countrys finances - so we can't have them in power yet. The Lib-Dems maths just didn't add up leading up the election last year anyway - they were wanting to hand money out left, right and centre - whilst also somehow reducing the deficit. Common sense says that was impossible. As for the Tories - well, they've proven that they're just far too aggressive in dealing with things. Unfortunately, not one of the big parties stands out at the moment - which is quite concerning. The opposition is about as weak as it has been for as long as I can remember but they may do well due to the fact that the Lib Dems are surely as lowly as they will ever get & the fact that the Tories are massively unpopular.By the way don't blame me for this - I voted for The Green Party Yeah - this is the problem. If Labour get back in to govern at the next general election, it won't be because they've done anything to make people want them back - it'll be because people have had to vote for them because of their lack of respect for either of the current bunch. Thats exactly why I voted Conservative last time - not because I wanted them in particular - but simply because we needed Labour out, and realistically, the only party that were likely to shift them were the Tories - so they had to get my vote. If the situation had been different, I'm not sure who I would have voted for (if at all to be honest). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Kane Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 I won't go into the particulars of the NHS pension scheme on here (it'd take far too long). To be honest I am paying into the scheme as (for someone on my level of pay) it works out to be a pretty good scheme (or at least as good as it could be) and will be far better than a private company pension. I have already accepted that the state pension retirement age will be around about 107 when I come to retire so I am counting on nothing from that. There are people within the public sector who have had it easy for too long - I agree, but there are a lot of people that will be affected in a negative way by this that deserve a hell of a lot better. Public sector isn't just NHS admin staff and council workers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number2Fan Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 I think it's the fact that it's a triple whammy for public sector workers, work longer, for less pension and pay more for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Kane Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Plus a freeze on pay increases across the board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number2Fan Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 But then again, my pay is frozen and I will have to work longer so it could be seen as unfair if public sector workers didn't. That's not necessarily my point of view on that subject btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted July 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Its about time pensions were simplified across the board. Regardless of whether your a public or private sector worker, everyone should retire at the same age, and everyone should get a pension relating to a a percentage of what they've paid in. If people want to retire early or have a bigger pension pot, then they should pay into a private pension too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number2Fan Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 My mum and dad recently became OAP's and have always worked hard since they left school at 14. My dad had paid a fair bit into a pension during his days as a builder but that turned out to be a pile of shit and he got nothing back AT ALL in the end. So now they live on state pension, and my dad has a paper round despite being deaf now. My mum tells me they're the richest they have ever been. So it can't be that bad. I know we were very poor during my childhood, but they're doing better now so it really can't be too bad can it. I mean they won't be going on a cruise or buying a new car or owt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted July 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 The basic state pension is crap - £102 per week. For a couple, the 2nd person gets a pathetic £61 per week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number2Fan Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Well that's testement to how poor my upbringing was and why I got very little for Xmas and birthdays. But it stood me in good stead for the hardship I'm currently coping on I suppose. Life rarely goes according to plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number2Fan Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 Meh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Kane Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 I'm going to hold my tongue on this board as I don't want to re-air my views on the whole riots and social unrest issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number2Fan Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Well it's not going very well is it? That is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted August 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 The riots that have taken place over the past few days are appalling and nothing to do with any government - past or present. It started off as a protest against the Police in Tottenham on Saturday, and since then, other 'copycat' riots have taken place simply with the intention of looting shops and causing trouble. This country has never experienced anything like this before (riots yes, but not in multiple places all at the same time) and I don't think anyone could have been prepared for it - Police, the government, the public, etc. Police have been under criticism for not having enough 'trained' riot police, etc - but in reality, they've never needed them in that sort of quantity before. The only thing that baffled me is why it has taken so long for decisions to be made - why has it taken Cameron to come back from his holiday before things can be discussed? What is the point in having a deputy prime minister if he can't make decisions while the prime minister is away. As soon as the riots started happening in multiple places, someone within government (Clegg surely as deputy PC) should have insisted that the army should have been drafted in. Why haven't plastic bullets been used yet? Why hasn't a curfew been put in place? Why is there not one single water cannon available outside of Ireland? Why are human rights even being considered? Stop fannying about - put a curfew in place, let the Police use some force, and get the army in to assist. If youngsters are out after the curfew, and clearly in places where trouble is happening, then they should automatically lose their human rights and face the consequences. Once its all blown over, Cameron and Clegg need their heads banging together for not making decisions quick enough - and the Police should train ALL officers in basic riot training so that as a last resort, they cna be used if needed. Costly - but it should be done. Perhaps Mr Cameron could have spent £600m on training police rather than giving it to India for 'aid'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonB Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Briggsy for PM in my books Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Kane Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Teresa May needs to resign or be sacked - she hasn't got a f****** clue! It is plainly the time for water cannon and rubber bullets - f*** what the world thinks about it we need to dispearse these theiving ****s. I hate that some of the rioters make out they have any agenda or any political stance - they are theiving, pillaging, f***wits who deserve to be dealt with in a manner befitting their crimes and the sooner it happens the better. What makes me laugh is that some of them are even saying "we're striking against the rich" and this associative bullshit - erm no you're not you clueless moron. Go see how many rich folk live in Tottenham or shop at JD sports - the only community you're harming is your own. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted August 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Teresa May needs to resign or be sacked - she hasn't got a f****** clue! I agree - her speech yesterday really was an embarrassment. Her other comments today were even more of an embarrassment. Ed Milliband wins quote of the week though with "we need to send the Police in hard". Yeah, nice one brains! I'm sure nobody thought of that one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neuro Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Made me angry on the tube home today reading about all this. Seems like the police were caught unawares here as during the recession they kettled those thugs who broke off from the organised demonstrators pretty well. It'll be interesting to see if the riots move into the city - I don't think they will personally, as there's no TVs or trainers to nick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number2Fan Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 You can tell the calibre of the looters they're nicking from JD's and carphone warehouse. Neither Boris or Cameron have any idea of the kinds of people and the kinds of lives of the people doing this. I'm appalled but I am not at all surprised. The police have done well on the limited resources and instruction they've had. Most people on any estate will know who the culprits are. Name em and Shame em and water cannon the bastards. All they are is thieving disrespecting f***wits, who should have no human rights!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted August 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 I can't take Boris Johnson seriously! Especially with that hair :eek: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissie Brown Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 I'm livid, what right have these morons got to cause so much devastation. I feel so sorry for all those families who have lost all their possessions and been left homeless due to these mindless thugs. Also feel sorry for the many people who now don't have a job because business premises have been destroyed by fire. They must be thick as they are destroying their own towns and country. I would ship them out to an island to live in tents with no TV, computers phones etc, and then make them go back and help clear up the mess they've made. The trouble is we are too soft in this country, not enough discipline in the home or in schools any more. l had to be home by a certain time and had to tell my parents where l was going and if l told lies l wasn't allowed out for a week. A smack and the cane did no one any harm. I was given the cane for coming to school wearing stiletto heels, it hurt and so l never did it again . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number2Fan Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Too much for free. Don't have to work to pay for their homes, food, possessions. Don't feel the value of what they have and what they've ruined for everyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissie Brown Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 If my son misbehaved at school l would stop him going out and he would be sent to his bedroom to do his homework or was given jobs to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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