Ashes

[HIGGZY]

So then Guys, who will be following our beauties down under this year? I certainly will.

How do you all think we will do, im opptemistic but think we have a chance.

[Max Kane]

Got work way too early tomorrow to stay up & watch much of today's play, will catch the highlights in the gym tomorrow afternoon. I think a drawn series would be a monumental achievement

[TheSaint]

So then Guys, who will be following our beauties down under this year? I certainly will.

How do you all think we will do, im opptemistic but think we have a chance.

i'll follow it in the 'i-don't-play-cricket-and-dont-watch-it-until-england-play-COME-ON-ENGLAND!!!!!-way'

[HIGGZY]

lol i used to be like that mate! saying that after the satrt we have had i may not be watching it much more if it carries on like that!!!!

[Briggsy]

I'm afraid we'll lose this series

The last time we won the Ashes, we caught Australia off-form, and England were on-form - the timing couldn't have been better, but this time, the Aussies are back at their best, and England are a little off-form too and probably a bit short of confidence after being caned in the last one-dayers.

I hope i'm wrong, but I can't see us making the same impact this time.

[bigsteve]

Agreed Briggsy. We just aren't the side we were last year. Although tbf, the Aussies did win the 1st test last time around so there's hope, but I'm certainly not putting money it!

[Briggsy]

yeah true, but even when we won the ashes when we played an off-form Australia, there was an element of fluke.

Remember that match where we won on the last ball of the 5th day? If we hadn't hit that winning run, the match would have been a draw.

Back then, Ponting was off form, Gilchrist was off form (he was out for two ducks in one test), Langer was off form and Gillespie was off form. Shane Warne saved them at times with some heroic batting at Number 9. Remember his 95 before he got out? He's never scored a test century and that was the closest he'd got. I was guuted for him that day.

Plus we also bent the rules slightly by using subs and picking specialist fielders in Trevor Penney and Gary Pratt (Penney was regarded as the best fielder in the world before he retired, and Pratt was regarded the 2nd best fielder in this country).

Now, we're facing an on-form Ponting, an on form Langer, a better Gilchrist, and Gillespie has been replaced with a bowler that has been compared to Glenn McGrath (not a bad player to be compared against). We also can't bend the rules so much out there.

I think that 1st test will be our heaviest defeat of the series, but i'm still expecting some hefty hammerings. We took too many injured and off-form players, and its standing out a mile.

The only positive I can see is that despite Ian Bell struggling last time against the Aussies, England stood by him, despite the media and the "experts" slating him and wanting him out. He's now come good and looks like our best hope out there.

Pieterson also needs to mature a bit as a player. When we've built up a large score, he's a great player to go out and stick a lot of runs on the board very quickly, but when we're struggling and at a score of 105-5, he still insists on wanting to smack everything out of the ground. He can't adapt his game to play more defensive and hang around for a while. He's a liabiliity at times.

Flintoff used to be the same when he was younger, but he's matured and changed his style now. Flintoff is the complete package, whereas Pieterson still has a lot to learn.

[Max Kane]

Harmison needs to sort himself out, the fact that he's not at full strength is hurting us badly, it wouldn't be as bad if the selectors had actually used their heads & selected a dependable backup like Stuart Broad or Kabir Ali, bowlers that can do a job for you, tie an end down for a few overs without being hammered round the park

Selecting Mahmood when he has precious little to justify his decision (other than play for a fashionable county) shows the shortsighted nature of the ECB

[Max Kane]

Also they have to address the spin issue, it's surely play two spinners & have Giles justify his place by being a genuine all-rounder (not a player that takes one wicket and scores 20 odd runs) OR drop him & play Monty Panesar, a genuine wicket taking spinner.

Once again Giles keeps his place cos his face fits, he's one of Fletcher's favourites just like Jones who should never have been chosen in place of Read, Read has made few mistakes & was just beginning to settle in & then he's dropped again for having a few bad games in India in ODIs no less.

[Briggsy]

Harmison, on his day, is Englands best bowler. He's accurate, controls the ball well, and has a very good action. The problem is, he's very much a confidence bowler. Even at County level, if he has a bad match, that then rolls into the next match, then the next match, until he picks up a couple of "lucky" wickets that picks his confidence up again.

Personally, i'd drop Harmison and risk both Giles and Panesar. Panesar has proven himself over the last year or so, and Giles has been England's best spin bowler for years. If Warne can play as a main bowler for Australia, then there's no reason why can't also have spinners playing as main bowlers. Even if they have a nightmare, they're likely to give a lower run rate than Harmison when he has a nightmare. Giles also adds us a bit of batting cover - he's capable of getting 20 to 30 runs.

We should have taken a proven wicket taker as back up. Gough's record speaks for itself. OK, he's injury prone and he's getting on a bit - but he's a big game player with loads of enthusiasm. He'd have loved to have a go at the Aussies. Cadd*** is another with a great record for England - particularly overseas. Then there's the younger players like Alex Wharf that have also taken wickets for England.

As for the wicketkeeping situation, well, England have never had a good, solid wicket keeper. We had the best keeper in the world in Jack Russell - but he couldn't get a game because the batsmen didn't get enough runs, so they opted for Alec Stewart instead who gave us extra batting cover. Jones is dodgy with the gloves, but is useful with the bat. Reid is fairly solid with the gloves, but not so consistent with the bat.

If you look at the best teams in the world, they always have the same players. Australia have had the same team for years and only replace players when they retire. South Africa are the same. They have players for specific positions - basman batting in the correct order, specialist wicketkeepers, 3 fast bowlers, a spinner and an all-rounder. If a player misses a match, they always have the same replacement - ie, if McGrath is out for the Aussies, then Gillespie comes in, or if Warne is out, then Macgill plays. England have players in makeshift positions - ie, a wicketkeeping batsman, or we'll pick a bowler because he can bat a bit rather than picking the one that takes most wickets. If we have injuries, we struggle to find replacements.

We need solid players in specific positions, and until we do that, we'll never have the balance right and we'll lose matches. We also need positive tactics. England clearly went out with a batting-minded, defensive team last week. Instead, we should have had an attacking team that could bat or bowl depending on how the game panned out. We went out there showing the Aussies we expected them to get a big score, and thats exactly what happened. Bad tactics and selections all round.

[bigsteve]

A nice scorecard to wake up to this morning 8-)

[HIGGZY]

Yeah i have been catching bits of it on Sky Sports news, it looked like a fantastic batting performance by the boys!

[Max Kane]

I stayed up all night watching this due to the fact that i got back hammered about 4 and we were doing really well. Collingwood's innings was superb, really kicked on nicely ot get the double ton, also nice to get Langer out in the 9 Overs we had at them right at the end of play, i really need to go to bed now

[Simcut]

Collingwood is THE bollocks!

[Briggsy]

Just three words to say!

HOW THE F**K??? :oops:

[Max Kane]

Ridiculous, complete lack of bottle shown. Am seriosuly starting to think that we'll get done 5-0 if nothing changes. Fletcher's excuse that Giles is in the side to get runs will only get him so far, the lack of runs & a significant threat when bowling (Hoggard aside) is alarming

[Briggsy]

I think Mike Atherton summed it up perfectly on Sky the other day. He said he'd rather see Panasar in the side taking 3-4 wickets rather than Giles in the site offering very little other than the possibility he might get 50 runs.

Giles doesn't look fit at all. He really struggled to jump up in the air when he dropped that catch at the weekend. I don't think he's all that comfortable with his hip yet. He looks stiff when he's bowling, he looks stiff when he's fielding, and his lack of runs when batting may suggest he's too stiff to play some of the shots which require more movement.

[bigsteve]

Attrocious.

How can we declare and then go on to a lose.

Giles is dead wood. He has to go. Panesar has to play the next Test surely.

I'm afaid I don't like Flintoff as captain either. Botham went off the boil when he became captain. After all the comparison's made between Flintoff and Botham, you'd think they'd learn.

Put me in a bad mood before even getting to work :cry:

[Briggsy]

Personally, I think Flintoff is pretty good as captain. Tactically, he's quite knowledgable with his field placings, etc, and he seems to know just when to pick a bowler. He can't be blamed for batsmen crumbling under pressure and playing kamikaze shots when they're not really needed.

Vaughan was a good captain, but he was useless as a player during his captaincy spell. The same happened to Nasser Hussain and Mike Atherton too.

it would appear that when a batsman is given the captaincy for England, they lose all form They can't seem to combine all roles.

Its just bad management throughout. Two warm up matches against mediocre opposition wasn't enough, and taking a load of injured players was also a big gamble. They also made a big cock-up by letting Englands bowling coach leave just because he asked for a small pay rise.

The players aren't all to blame - its the management and men it suits at the ECB.

Australia were over here for three months warming up last year, whereas we went out for two matches. That suggests that we either went out being too cocky and expecting to win, or the ECB didn't wan't to pay to keep the players out there for longer.

Disgraceful.

[Max Kane]

I disagree with the comments about players losing their form when they become captain, it has happened & initially Vaughan's form suffered but last year he was magnificent & the ton he got at Edgbaston was inspired.

Atherton continued to play very well when made captain and managed to captain his side for over 50 tests, he must have been doing something right.

Hussain's whole career was up & down but i don't think the captaincy affected him too much either.

I always said that Strauss should be captain for this tour, the ECB seemed to just go with the idea that Flintoff is the most popular player & will probably be a better person for PR & marketting purposes

[bigsteve]

The Atherton era has to be one of the worst eras imo. England didn't really achieve much while he was captain and Illingworth's decisions were more atrocious than recent ones!

I wish we wouldn't keep persisting with bowlers that can 'bat a bit.' Its up to the batters to bat and the bowlers to bowl. Fair enough if you are struggling with a decision over 2 similar bowlers, pick the one that can bat.

[Briggsy]

Yep, I agree. If you're admitting to picking a bowler because he can save you with a few runs if you're in trouble, then thats a negative attitude. The attitude they should have is "well, if we've got plenty of runs behind us, we need some bowlers that can take the wickets to defend that score".

The Atherton/Illingworth era was bad, and the Alec Stewart/Illingworth situation was bad too. Hussain wasn't a great deal better and it affected his scoring at times. Vaughan has been our most successful captain to date, and we've made great progress under his and Fletcher - we were the 2nd worst team in the world when they took over, and now we're 2nd best, so thats says it all. I still think that Vaughan hasn't shown the same form with the bat since becoming captain as he did prior to that - apart from the bit of form against Australia. Sometimes captaincy can be a big burden - look how bad Brian Lara was when he became Windies captain, Hussain, etc.

I still think this is the best England team we've seen for years, however, there are issues that need addressing. if players aren't fit or haven't played for months, they can't play for England - its as simple as that. How can we pick Vaughan, who is rumoured to play in the 2nd test, ahead of someone like Mark Ramprakash, who averaged over 100 runs in County cricket last year. For all we know, even if Vaughan had been fit last season, he could have been terribly off form - would he have still gone? I very much doubt it.

We need to pick a team and stick with it. We need specialist players throughout - no batting wicketkeepers and bowlers that can bat. We've always done that and its always backfired. The likes of South Africa & Australia have had the same squad for years and obly change it when a player is injured or retires. We need to do the same. Stick them in the team, make them gel as a squad, and then we'll do well.

The test side changes regularly, and the one day side changes with every match - and then they wonder why we can't play one-day cricket.

[Max Kane]

Players like Ramprakash, Crawley & Hick (my hero) should be cast aside, they didn't cut it when they had their initial chance & the subsequent second, third & fourth chances.

What got England into the position we find ourselves in (2nd in Test Rankings) was giving younger players a chance & having them come through. I credit Hussain for a lot of the ground work, lets not forget we were well on the rise when he finally retired & he & Fletcher were the ones that managed to get us out of the rut.

There's no point in us now going back to older players, we need to give those younger players like Joyce, Shah, Broad a chance to play.

[Briggsy]

I completely agree with youngsters Tom - they're the way forward, but sometimes, I feel that we've got too many youngsters in the side - they need a little bit of experience in the side to help out too. The Aussies have a relatively old side, as do South Africa. The Windies were also at their best when they had their old heads such as Courtney Walsh, Curtley Ambrose, Jimmy Adams, etc - when they retired, they lost their way.

Since the old England wicketkeepers retired (Stewart & Russell), we've seriously struggled to find anyone solid behind the stumps - we don't have a solid, experienced, old head to rely on now. Pieterson can also show a lack of experience at times. He's supurb when there's already a high score on the board because he goes in, whacks them around and builds the score up quicker - but when we've lost a couple of early wickets, sometimes he'll still go in and try to whack them around and drop us in it. He doesn't always change his game to suit the situation. Flintoff was similar when he started out - but he's changed his game and matured a bit since.

I agree about Hick, Ramprakash, etc being given too many chances - but you can't deny they've done extremely well this season - probably the best they've ever been in their careers. The problem is under the Illingworth era, players were given a couple of tests and if they failed, they were bombed out, replaced, and then recalled a bit later on only to face the same situation again - which isn't very good for the confidence. Fletcher set a good example of how it should be done when he stuck by Ian Bell. He struggled against the Aussies, but he stuck with him, and then after the series, sent him back to his county for extra practice and then put him into the England one day side to show him that he was still in mind. He then made some good performances and forced his way back into the side - and i'd say he's been our second best player in Australia so far. It proves that if a player is handled correctly, then he can keep some confidence and bounce back.

Ramprakash may well have been poor if he went out to Australia - but i'd rather try a player that is on form at county level rather than taking players that are injured or off-form that also won't do anything out in Australia.

[Max Kane]

We need Stewart back mate, captained the Directors XI or whatever the side was called the other day in a tour game at the age of 43.

He top scored with 69 from 69 balls, kinda put Read 0 from 7 & the others in their place