lyndon Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 I've been listening to a lot of old and new mixes latley, trance and house. And i've realised that back in the days of Technics 1210's DJ's used to use the full +8%, nowdays it sounds like they are terrified of going above 1.5%. I admit it could sound a bit stupid with a vocal track, but I remember Jules playing Airwave at around +6% on some mixes on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtim Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Mixes nowadays do seem tame & polished compared to the 'vinyl era'. They are too perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Kane Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Ableton has made the ability to "warp" a track so easy that pro DJs probably don't even beat match anymore. They just stick everything at the same bpm and focus on other aspects of mixing. Master Tempo has probably eliminated the notice-ability of tracks pitched now too. I would agree that there has been a general decline in DJs playing tracks outside of their usual bpm spectrum though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number2Fan Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 On a personal level, mixing on vinyl felt good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyndon Posted September 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Some tunes sounded better with a bit of pitch on I thought, especially a few dub mixes. Can't say I use master tempo myself for dance mixes, unless I go into -%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtim Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Totally agree with the points above, cdj's are boring to watch AND boring to use imo. I still buy tracks on vinyl where I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milkybarkid Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 My heart sank today when I saw today that the new cdj2000 nexus (which is going to replace the cdj2000) has a synch button on it. Mixing as we all used to know and cut our teeth on, will be a distant memory soon I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Kane Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 I think it is already to be honest. Of all professional DJs I would be amazed if more than 20% of them actually use pitch control to mix now. You get the good old traditionalists like Sven Vath and some other techno jocks who still play vinyl as much as possible but by and large DJs have become focused on other things. I hate it too - but that's how it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtim Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Wow, DJing really has changed with technology. I have always loved the 'simple nature' of 2 turntables & a mixer, a bag full of records & a rocking party! I do not share Zabiela's passion for new technology. It just seems over-complicated and messy to me. In good news, I read in this month's DJ Mag that cd is now the struggling format whilst downloads & vinyl sales are both doing ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Kane Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 I wouldn't lay the blame at Zabiela's door to be honest. He is very technologically geared sure, but he was always more FX units and such while still using CDJs. Ableton has been the big driver for warping and syncing tracks - it has allowed some pretty awesome capabilities for DJs and, more so, for producers but it has completely changed the dynamic for DJing too - for better or worse. I still use CDJs and a mixer for recording my weekly shows and playing out and I don't think that will change anytime soon. I have still got my vinyl decks but it's just nonsense to purchase vinyl on any kind of scale now - they are purely for sentimentality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number2Fan Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Such is life!! But don't you forgot how heavy a bag of records is to take out with you, carry into a pub/club/party, have other people rummaging through, spilling things on, stealing. How difficult to get certain tunes/mixes could be. How expensive it was to like and buy just four 12"s in a record shop. Don't get me wrong, I love vinyl so much, every piece, I love how it can be exclusive, how it can be on shelves to look at. Putting the needle on it, everything. Although I look at my vinyl in fondness, my photos from clubs where Jules has a record box etc, I think we all know why DJing technology has moved on from those days. I am glad I experienced it in its hay day. Pretty soon I think the day of the DJ will be gone. Mark my words. :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtim Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Sorry, i'm not actually blaming Zabiela at all (although didn't he work closely with Pioneer R&D at one stage? ;-)). He was simply an example of a DJ who, to me, epitomises where DJ technology currently is, and how far you can take it. For sure vinyl is heavy, delicate, expensive and makes no sense at all, but then art forms & hobbies rarely make sense. Young kids are bound to go down the mp3 route - it's quicker, easier, cheaper and all that they have ever known. I fell in love with DJing when / because it was a beautifully simple, yet skilful art. I guess it still can be if you hook up 2 cdj's, put tape over the bpm readout and leave your laptop at home!! I think that you're absolutely right Cheese - everyone will have a say in the music played at parties of the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyndon Posted September 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 When I started on vinyl over 10 years ago I used to touch the platter on the side if it needed slowing down, and push the record forward slightly near the spindle if it was too slow. When I was setting the pitch through my headphones. I've only just noticed DJ's using the pitch control technique, where they don't touch the record at all. Not for me though. I used to love scratching beats, and sometimes acapellas over dub house tracks. I still can't get that same feel and accuaracy with CDJ's so I don't scratch as much now, unless I wire Traktor into my pair of Vestax PDX-2000's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milkybarkid Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 When I started on vinyl over 10 years ago I used to touch the platter on the side if it needed slowing down, and push the record forward slightly near the spindle if it was too slow. When I was setting the pitch through my headphones. I've only just noticed DJ's using the pitch control technique, where they don't touch the record at all. Not for me though. I used to love scratching beats, and sometimes acapellas over dub house tracks. I still can't get that same feel and accuaracy with CDJ's so I don't scratch as much now, unless I wire Traktor into my pair of Vestax PDX-2000's. To be fair, that 'non touch' thing with vinyl has been going on for years. I remember Marshall Jefferson being the first person I saw use it live round 96/7 (it was completely new to me) who's a pioneer of dj'ing, and I remember Fergie telling the story of when Tony De Vit took him under his wing back in the late ninties. Tony would get Fergie to make him a tape and sit down to listen to it in front of Fergie. If he heard Fergie touching the platter in a mix, he immediately took the tape out and broke it and tell him to make it again! Fwiw, I always liked give the record a nudge with my hands too. I always felt afraid to touch the pitch after I'd it set perfect (or as near as). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number2Fan Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Good way of getting Fergie to pay a forfeit lol I loved TDV but I was very sus about the Fergie TDV thing back then and tbh I still am now. I had no idea there was a "no touch" method, I've never noticed it being an issue, I thought everyone touched the plate if it was helpful or necessary to do so. Of course my plate touching was sometimes more of a whack... But I like that rustic quality. PS: TDV was a great DJ but he played HiNRG / Hard house and in the beginning so did Fergie, and let's face it, to beat match those genres is very easy. Just shows there's more to being a great DJ than just beat matching ( or as it shall now be called - Syncing ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtim Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Riding the pitch never seemed like a good idea to me. If the record is going just a little too fast and you adjust the pitch down to get it back in time, you then have to guess where it was before in order to keep it in beat, or else it's then too slow & you're suddenly having to pitch up (more often than not in a club there is not enough light to see the %). As with you chaps, I always found it far more accurate & quick to slow the platter gently with one finger (or speed it up by pushing the label) and then make the appropriate adjustment with the pitch depending on just how quickly the beats moved away from each other. I always wondered if this was indeed the subject of the title "Pitchin' (In Every Direction)" ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Kane Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 You didn't have to necessarily touch the platter, you could just turn the spindle or slow it down, that way you didn't get the distortion that you somtimes got (esp with thinner vinyl and acetates) by nudging or slowing the platter. I loved vinyl mixing and it was way more challenging than mixing on CDJs and the other new technology. I was (and I am sure there are still threads on this very board which denote this) one of the last guys I know to move over to CDJs from vinyl. My point about no longer using it relates solely to convenience and cost. I think what made me change over completely was the closure of 3 Shades records in Brum - shopping for vinyl online is no more enjoyable than shopping for mp3 tracks so once I lost my favourite record store a lot of the fun went from vinyl shopping. I will never sell my vinyl collection or my decks but in terms of modern DJing it makes little to no sense to use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtim Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 I have had bookings recently where i've been asked "You will be playing vinyl, won't you?" I should add that these questions tend to come from people who are at least 35! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Kane Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 I think vinyl has actually been making something of a comeback of late - particularly in techno. I remember taking some vinyl to gigs a few years back and there wouldn't even be a 1210 available! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyndon Posted September 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 I used to go to 3 shades in Birmingham, Hard To Find Records as well, Max Millwards in Wednesfield, and a place called Sundown records in Walsall. Only Hard To Find is still around. One memory that will last forever is a dark winter's Saturday afternoon when I was 12, just before Chrismas 2000. And walking out of Sundown in Walsall with around 6 records, 2 of which were Bullet in a Gun by Planet Perfecto, and Gouryella's Gouryella. I remember listening to Judge Jules on the way back home in the car too. I don't remember downloading my first mp3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milkybarkid Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Yeah, I notice quite a few releases now seem to have 12" versions of releases. It seems to be mainly techno/ deep house though sadly. See loads of people saying they buy online now in bulk, but I'd imgime it sin't cheap. It's just not feasible to go through the whole process of pressing a tune now when it can be burned ready for use seconds after making it. It's great, but also of massive detriment, leading to so much over-saturation, imo. Would be amazing if it made a comeback, even in a minor, dare I say it, elitist form. Though haven't they stopped making the Technics decks? Cheese- Yeah, that whole Fergie thing was a bit... well, I dunno, strange, really. It's no secret TDV was gay, and played at the notorious Trade, so taking in a 16/7 year old kid away from home to live with him raised a few eyebrows, but apparently TDV met with Fergie's parents, and they were left completely satisfied with his plans. They were fully supportive once they met him. As far as I'm aware, Fergie's completely straight, so he was going over for the music only anyway.* *edit, by that I mean not heading over to party and go wild at a young impressionable age, as the scene was purely about the music for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyndon Posted September 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Well he got a Radio 1 show for his efforts for a while, so it seemed all worth it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtim Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 I remember taking some vinyl to gigs a few years back and there wouldn't even be a 1210 available! This used to be a real issue for me! Fortunately the decks are back now and well maintained again because of the use of Traktor Scratch et al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Kane Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Fergie's still doing really well! Excentric and Rekluse (his labels) put out some sterling techno and when he plays techno he is still a fantastic DJ. I hear he also has a house alias now and played under this guise at global - I do hope it's not just some sell out excuse though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milkybarkid Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Oh dear Tom, I hate to be the bearer of bad news. He's playing in Vegas now as Rob Guson, playing a more commercial sound. He's leaving the techno for now. http://skrufff.com/2012/08/dj-fergie-reinvents-himself-to-conquer-vegas/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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