Change in music - a cycle of differences

[Neuro]

The thing is though, as Jules's style has changed over the years, we've all moved along with it - ie, his sound 2 years ago was different from his harder sound of 1999, but we still liked him regardless. But now, his sound seems to be changing again, but he's leaving us all behind.

I thought I'd start a new topic on this to provoke some intelligent discussion between what people on here think of music and change in general. I've been meaning to find this very good article on the web by a University Professor in Australia (I can't remember who exactly without searching) regarding the phenomenon cycle of fans' relationships with a musical genre/artist/DJ over the span of years; the conclusion was something like to do with the fact that after a certain period of time in any musical genre, history shows that a new wave of fans "replace" those of the old, who cannot associate with the present because they became hooked on something now doesn't exist, therefore a natural backlash happens every few years or so as the cycle goes round again.

Obviously the lecturer in question didn't generalise as much as I just did in the above paragraph but the point is there. On a personal note, the turn of the millenium saw massive change -

- The digital music revolution

- The release of the iPod

- Jules' Friday night specialist show axed

- Further and continual fragmentation of the dance genre

- Broadband internet allows access for the first time worldwide to the many dance variants

The final point is massive in my opinion because gradually people became aware that they could listen to any music they liked; think back to 1998, and we were all taping Jules shows off the radio because we found it was the only accessible source at the time to that type of music, without literally going out clubbing. That first tape, that Essential Mix, that first vinyl - is always what we will remember as the "beginning", even though for other listeners beforehand it marked the "end".

The same applies to other genres of music. If you think of the "classical" genres, off the top of my head you've got:

Medieval (c.400 - 1400)

Renaissance (1400 - 1600)

Baroque (1600 - 1750)

Classical (1750 - 1820)

Romantic (1820 - 1910)

Modern/20th Century+ (1910-??)

Ok, you can't put years on them accurately because Mozart didn't arrive on the scene in 1775 and suddenly decide "right, all this Baroque stuff is crap, I'm starting a new genre with these new instruments people have invented" - it was a gradual, progressive change. But all of those named eras above are very different and each one essentially evolved as a reaction against what had gone before. This is continual and never-ending, and no doubt in 100 years' time people will make a new name for 20th century 'highbrow' music in view of the recent technological developments in the last 20 years and birth of more experimental composers. Anyway, I think you get this in the dance genre too, and new variants emerge, for example Ferry's rebirth of the Electro scene as a reaction against the over-produced Trance of the 1999 era? Who knows. As I said it's not a conscious decision, just natural progression.

That's just my opinion put out there - I want to hear your views below! But what I will say is that we are incredibly lucky to have experienced the tunes from "back in the day", and to have witnessed this massive change happening in front of our eyes. It will never be the same again, but then again those people who saw the musical revolution of rock & roll the 1960s, electronic music in the 1980s, and that famous "Second Summer of Love" in 1988/89, they will have said exactly the same before us. And at the end of the day, if things didn't change, we'd never progress or discover new musical tastes

[bigsteve]

Jules' Friday night specialist show axed

Always worth mentioning in any thread :mrgreen:

You make some good points above Tim. I'm sure there are people just discovering Jules's sound of today and will harp on about it in 5-10 years time like 'we' do about the late 90s/early 00s. At one point in time, Jules will no longer have a Radio 1 show and I feel priviledged to have followed his shows for such a long period of time. But, no matter where Jules goes musically, it will never be the same again.

I think this new avenue of techy/electro stuff is a distinctive move that many trance DJs are taking, but I'm not sure that its the right one. I agree there is a market for it, but the newer DJs on the scene (SVD, Rickard Durand, etc) are the ones that are best placed to pursue it. When Fergie moved away from trance he lost many fans and I fear Jules is doing the same (or certainly the ones that have been following him for many years.)

I used to religiously listen to Jules' R1 shows, Friday and Saturday, but now have found music elsewhere, that before t'inernet I would not have had access to. I long regret not getting hooked up sooner, but hindsight is a fabulous thing.

Life is ever evolving and the pace of change seems to be constantly speeding up. There has to be a point where we refuse to move as quick as it is being forced upon us. For exemple, recycling of rubbish (random, I know, but read on...) People are slowly coming around to sorting their plastic, glass, paper, etc. But it has its opponents. In 10 years time, I'm sure it will be very different.

Music can only move as quick as people want it to. The accessibility of it is an amazing thing and I suspect trance may have fallen on its arse by now without it.

[Max Kane]

I think that people's own pursuit of music will take their tastes intn different directions. A lot of people still only listen to Jules, not because they are hardened clubbers or fashionistas but because they hear him on the radio & basically their tastes are cattered for, they like what they hear & then they go & see Jules because they are familiar with his tracks. His personality sells to them & they do not wish to seek any other forms of dance music, they like Jules & he's all they want, they go to the club night Jules is playing and stand at the bar for the warmup, dance to Jules, then leave. That's fine for the people who have a casual taste in dance music.

For those of us that seek to explore different genres & styles there is no limit to what kind of music you can find & get into. If someone would have told me as recently as three years ago that I would be hosting a radio show & playing out whilst playing progressive trance I'd have laughed, I discovered the music I now love through my own initiative to explore the DJs I heard playing out & to take on board new ideas & new music. I heard Markus Schulz for the first time about three and a half years ago & though I liked the music i definately saw it as a little 'dull' & warmup fare, I didn't really get too excited about it. Then each week I went to Gods & heard the new progressive stuff i began to get more & more into it, instead of net based searching I went down to Birmingham to the old vinyl stores Massive & Three Shades & sought advice & explored the relevant sections until i began to fall in love with the new music I had found.

People who actively seek new music & pursue their interests will constantly move on & find new ways of enjoying music, I loved the '99 era trance but I'd say I love the 2007 era progressive trance every bit as much and deem some of the tracks released in the last year as some of my favourites already.

[Uberduck]

I had always thought that people must look at Jules now in the same light as we did 'back in the day' and I'm sure there are younger people on here that do exactly that. Just because that was Jules best period in our eyes :eek: , doesn't mean that the 'kids' of today will think the same.

I dont see any problem with this whatsoever. People are always entitled to their opinion.

In respect of the general negative feelings to Jules' present style, maybe this professor Tim quote's has got it spot on. I always look at threads on here where members (inc. me) are stating how we used to prefer his style how it was and that it's not the same anymore and think we sound like a load of old timers moaning (no offence).

I think that if Jules is developing a new style that doesn't perhaps fully represent the tastes of our members then this should be considered as a natural progression and not Jules turning his back on a style that made him who he is now. It'd be wrong of us to start slagging him off as he's been an idol and legend to all of us.

If Jules ends up dropping as the No1 DJ in some of our eyes then so be it. There's no point in trying to change your tastes with his changing style if you dont like where he's going. Thats not what music is all about.

Personally I dont rate him as my No1 anymore as people like Eddie H excite me when I see them whereas with Jules it's almost expected what he'll play. I love Jules for his personality whilst DJ'ing and most of his tracks I like but it's just some of these odd tracks he's playing that puzzle me. I think the change in his R1 show has also affected my opinion of him as I just dont like the format of 'Cut up Boys' and all the electro/funky house at the start. I know this isn't his fault but it just puts me off listening to the whole show.

Just out of interest are there any members on here that have just got into dance music and see this period in Jules' career as his best? Don't be afraid to stick your neck out, we won't bite .

[Moonman]

That's just my opinion put out there - I want to hear your views below! But what I will say is that we are incredibly lucky to have experienced the tunes from "back in the day", and to have witnessed this massive change happening in front of our eyes. It will never be the same again, but then again those people who saw the musical revolution of rock & roll the 1960s, electronic music in the 1980s, and that famous "Second Summer of Love" in 1988/89, they will have said exactly the same before us. And at the end of the day, if things didn't change, we'd never progress or discover new musical tastes

you hit the nail on the head right there. in 5 years, 20 year olds today who will become 25 will reminisce over the electro house/minimal tracks of today. Those genres will be what "Trance" is to us. Its the whole generation thing isnt it really.

I think the real problem is, dare i say this, the quality of music today may have dropped? Yes i know someone will say i'm not looking hard enough...but i feel in general, with the advent of the download, the quality isnt what it once was. There no sending a half baked demo to an exec only for him to throw it out. Now it just gets lumped on beatport as it costs nowhere near as much in terms of overheads to produce, press up, distribute and advertise.

oh lets face gang, we're all getting older too!!

[Robin]

you hit the nail on the head right there. in 5 years, 20 year olds today who will become 25 will reminisce over the electro house/minimal tracks of today. Those genres will be what "Trance" is to us. Its the whole generation thing isnt it really.

I think the real problem is, dare i say this, the quality of music today may have dropped? Yes i know someone will say i'm not looking hard enough...but i feel in general, with the advent of the download, the quality isnt what it once was. There no sending a half baked demo to an exec only for him to throw it out. Now it just gets lumped on beatport as it costs nowhere near as much in terms of overheads to produce, press up, distribute and advertise.

oh lets face gang, we're all getting older too!!

Dance music labels do not have the funds to spend on giving artists advances as they did in the past. These advances were usually spent on high quality outboard studio gear, hiring of high spec studios etc etc. This meant that producers could produce some truly amazing tracks which were creative and had a unique sound to them. Sadly in the current climate with cheap computer music packages and 'all in one studios', the music coming from a lot of producers sounds cheap and there's a very homogenous sound to most of the dance music output. These tracks, as Moonman quite rightly says, can pretty much instantly be sold on the digital music stores around the world immediately after they've been recorded.

It's a real shame about how things are to a degree and I receive phone calls on a daily basis from producers and DJ's who tell me that they wish I was in charge of the whole thing but in this industry, money talks and you have to have the big bucks behind you in reality.

[Briggsy]

I think this new avenue of techy/electro stuff is a distinctive move that many trance DJs are taking, but I'm not sure that its the right one. I agree there is a market for it, but the newer DJs on the scene (SVD, Rickard Durand, etc) are the ones that are best placed to pursue it. When Fergie moved away from trance he lost many fans and I fear Jules is doing the same (or certainly the ones that have been following him for many years.)

See, I wouldn't say Jules is moving towards a techier sound. In my eyes, he's always been a techy DJ - and i'd say that those are by far his better sets. I've never seen Jules as an out-and-out Trance DJ - and I think he would agree. Jules specialised in two areas back when he was at his best - he had his bouncy bassline side with tunes such as Flickman - Sound Of Bamboo, Hi-Gate - Caned & Unable, Altitude - Excession, etc - and then he had his harder side with tunes such as Mario Piu - Library, Mauro Picotto - Baguette, etc. His mixing was awesome, and his creativity mixing from tune to tune was supurb - not only did he do a mix that made you think "yeah, that was a nice mix", he actually made you think "wow, that mix was 2 minutes long and those tunes sounded awesome together" - the mixes fitted so well together and his style created so much energy. His style of energetic mixing left you feeling really up for the next tune before it even kicked in fully.

Now, Jules is playing a lot of calmer Trance too, with other things in-between (Electro-Trance, Hard Dance, Tunes with calm basslines, tunes with bouncy baslsines, tunes with hard basslines, etc) and I don't feel as though it brings out the best in him. He's definately a much better harder DJ than calmer DJ. Jules was about tunes with big funky basslines - and now those seem to have gone. His mixing style has also changed. The creativity went a few years ago - tunes are just mixed now, and whilst a lot of them sound ok, none of them make you think "wow, that mix was 2 minutes long and those tunes sounded awesome together" - they just make you think "yeah, that was Ok i suppose".

I think that's why many of Jules's old fans like Eddie Halliwell now. Eddie's mixing style now is just like Jules's was back in 1999 - Eddie will spend two minutes or more mixing, and he'll pull off a stunning mix that sounds amazing. If you gave Eddie a load of records that Jules played in 1999/2000/2001 and told him not to scratch, just mix, and then compared his set to a 1999/2000/2001 Jules set, the similarities would be quite scary. I think this is also why Jules and Eddie like each other so much, and why they're suited on line-ups too. Jules would like Eddie's style because its the style he used to have, and Eddie would like Jules's old style because its similar to his now - Eddie grew up listening to Jules too, and has probably incorporated some of that style into his own sets. They seem to bounce off each others styles, and I think thats why they have so much respect for each other.

I honestly feel that if Jules stuck to one or two styles in his sets again, rather than being so diverse, and put a bit more emphasis back into his mixing, we'd get to see the old Jules again. The randomness of a calmer Above & Beyond tune, a banging tune such as John O'Callaghan's 'Pendulum', an Electro-Trance Ferry Corsten tune, and a huge Trancer such as 'Vrantique' all in the same set don't really work in my opinion. I'd rather Jules looked at the DJ before and after him and thought to himself "Right, DJ X is Techy, and DJ Y is a Hard-Trance DJ, so i'll work between those two styles only in this set", rather than use a combination of four or five styles within his set. There's nothing wrong with him having lots of styles - I think its great that he's so versatile - but I just think he should pick 1 or 2 of them for the duration of his set. If his first gig on a Saturday night suits calmer Trance, then fine - play calmer Trance, and if the second gig suits hard Trance, then fine, play Hard Trance.

[Marty Mayes]

I dont think jules friday nyt set's live from the clubs/uni's will ever be beaten they were f***ing awesome