bigsteve Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 I know this has been hinted at before, but it seems like its moving ever-closer. http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/art...lock/article.do Soon we'll need a Club-RIP forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Haze Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Not a good sign im afraid - do you guys think theres been a significant decline in the dance scence? I have to say up until the radio 1 swap round i thought things were looking up I always wanted to visit Turnmills too so i better pull my finger out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Its a great shame - I love Turnmills! Anyone that has been will know that the place has the most passionate crowd ever! Its a great club with a really friendly vibe. Even when a DJ has a stinker, he gets a good reception - something that doesn't happen in any other club. The venue itself is a nice, dark, maze of a venue with little rooms branching off here and there - a lot of thought has been put into it and the decor. Its a typical traditional club. Its hard to find a venue with the same traditions now - most of them are boring big rooms full of lights and speakers - with very little else. Air in Birmingham is the prime example of this. I do a lot of PR work for The Gallery & Vaccine at Turnmills, and I know that they're a passionate bunch - and trust me, they will live on. Turnmills may die, but The Gallery and Vaccine won't. They are one of the only bunch of promotors that will give us something different. They gave UK debuts to Fabio Stein, Richard Durand, Thomas Bronzwaer, Sean Tyas, etc - when nobody else has been brave enough to. I do fear for clubland though. Turnmills is going, The Arches in Glasgow is going, The Cross has gone, Gatecrasher One burnt down, Passion is struggling big time, Godskitchen @ Air has gone monthly (and severely downhill too - and if rumours are true, it operates at a loss - with Global Gathering funds being used to keep it afloat instead). I hate to say this, but I blame it on DJ fee's. £10,000 for Tiesto, £12,000 for Oakenfold - its not the clubs paying it, its us - and at £30+ per person, plus drinks, cloakroom and travel, we're opting to stay away. If DJ's were more reasonable with their salaries, then clubland wouldn't be struggling for cash. If we can live on £20,000 per year salaries, then i'm sure they can - they make money in between times from radio shows, tv adverts, tv appearances, etc - so they don't need to rape every last penny from clubs. They say they play because they're passionate about the music - well, if so, they should prove it - take pay cuts. Half of them are undeserved anyway. Oakie consistently plays crap, yet walks out with a huge cheque - whilst we've got superb DJ's playing to themselves in their bedrooms because nobody will give them the chance to play out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonman Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 It all goes back to what i was saying in another thread. The dance scene has become stale. First and foremost club nights should be the music. Personally, i feel that over the last 3-4 years this has not been the case, music has taken a back seat when it should never do. With all this minimal bollocks around people are too bothered about being trendy and not listening too "cheesy" music. Without good quality music you have nothing; and sorry peeps, i dont think minimal is good music. Thats just the way its gone. Its gone exactly the same way hip-hop has; money now controls it, which looking back to the heady rave days of 1991, should never have been allowed to happen. DJ's are paid too much, club nights charge too much and drinks can be quite expensive. It all adds up. The best time to have made your money as a "superstar DJ" was in the 1997-1999 era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducky Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 I agree totally with what both of you say, when you go to a club now you dont get that feeling you used to get, you also used to look at the organisers etc and they would be one of you and you knew they were doing it because of the love for the music not for the cash etc, now all you see is the fat cats that are in it for the money and the feeling when your in the club like its far to commercialised and nothing but a cash cow, well 90% of the clubs now anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Promotors also have to take some of the blame - and Godskitchen are notorious for what i'm about to say.... They book DJ's they THINK we want, and not what we want. I've seen so many complaints about Marco V and Mauro Picotto over the last couple of years, They no longer play Trance - yet promotors book them on Trance line-ups - and then people go home early when they're on. Also (another Godskitchen policy...), they put DJ's on at random times just to accomodate them. I've lost track of the amount of times i've seen a warm-up DJ, then someone like Marcel Woods immediately afterwards boshing out Tech-Trance, and then someone like Markus Schulz on immediately afterwards, who immediately takes the pace down to 136bpm and plays proggy, followed by someone boshy again like Fred Baker. Instead, they should put on a warm-up DJ, then a proggy DJ, then perhaps a more melodic DJ, and then a bosher. If they want a DJ to play at 12am til 2am, but he's not available because he's playing elsewhere, so they have to settle for 4am til 5.30am instead, then THEY SHOULD NOT BOOK HIM! We hate random line-ups - it kills the energy on the dance floor. We want flowing line-ups that build throughout the night. This is where Turnmills are superb - they book around 7 DJ's per night - one or two a-listers, and then a few new faces and b-listers. They, most of the time, work out the schedule so that it flows well throughout the night. They appear to book their a-lister, and then book the rest of the DJ's around that a-lister so that it all works out well. It obviously works too because they're the last remaining major WEEKLY trance night - and not only that, they can do it for £12.50 admission - and they always sell out. If Turnmills can book A-list DJ's, plus 6 or 7 b-listers, and put them in a flowing line-up for just £12.50 admission, then why do others struggle - and why do they feel the need to charge us twice as much for it too! Unfortunately, the big brands think that because they've been around for so long, they know the industry better than us - but they're wrong. I feel that they've been around for so long, they've become slightly arrogant - and are either out of touch with the current scene, or just don't care any more. I'm afraid I lost faith with Godskitchen and Gatecrasher ages ago - they're so out of touch, its unreal - and then they wonder why they're struggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonB Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 I agree with all said here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Haze Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 I agree with all said here. x2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigsteve Posted December 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 The Arches in Glasgow is going, Where did you hear this mate? I'd like to think I would have heard about this if it was true :confused: Inside Out is not as busy as it used to be, but other nights are coming along and getting sell out crowds. I think Inside Out's downfall is repeat DJ bookings, whereas Freefall and Rehab book new DJs, and getting bigger crowds. Some of the door prices at IO are also too high - sometimes £30 for a 'normal' night. Dance music is not as popular as it was 'back in the day'. Most of us on here would agree with that and that is the fundamental problem IMO. As an example, the gf asked me the other day why the music in The Arches isn't the same as it was 8-9 years ago. That says it all to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Callaghan Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Where did you hear this mate? I'd like to think I would have heard about this if it was true :confused: Inside Out is not as busy as it used to be, but other nights are coming along and getting sell out crowds. I think Inside Out's downfall is repeat DJ bookings, whereas Freefall and Rehab book new DJs, and getting bigger crowds. Some of the door prices at IO are also too high - sometimes £30 for a 'normal' night.Dance music is not as popular as it was 'back in the day'. Most of us on here would agree with that and that is the fundamental problem IMO. As an example, the gf asked me the other day why the music in The Arches isn't the same as it was 8-9 years ago. That says it all to me. Yip, first I've heard of that one myself. Where'd u get that one from???? Not even came across this rumour on the Insideout forum itself never mind on here, find it hard to believe to be honest. Would like to know where u heard this rumour. A keep intouch with a bunch of folk including Resident DJ's & Promoters for several nights at the Arches & was chatten to a few at the 'White party' duren the week there & not one has hinted to me that there mite be rumours of it closing down. It would be a hard pill to swallow if it were true, but I can't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 I got my knickers in a twist about the Arches - it wasn't that one I meant, it was the Irish one that Jules said in his online diary would be closing in the near future. Port Rush? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Mental Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Still hammered, so will read your thoughts properly tomorrow, but its all a lot of crap personally, as long as theres venues, there will be nights, as long as theres enough to cover the rent, there's clubs/warehouse(even cheaper)/ tunnels / more clubs. I've been listening to the same old s*** about the demise of the dance music scene for about 8 years, it aint going anywhere. Someone made a good point there about it being "superstar" dj's such as tiesto's fault for insane dj fee's, and aye, in certain roads of music it'll f*** it up, til the arseholes realise they're killing it and it'll start all over again. Far too many passionate people about to just 'end a scene', complete bollocks, and as for the Arches comment, a place that is a registered charity building, council part-funded, due to the theatre etc, and club nights at least 5 times a month that take in at least 5000 people all in - guarenteed, is not going to shut lol. Might not be constantly rammed, but Pressure sold out in a week a couple of months ago, 2250 tickets 3 weeks in advance at £22 a ticket.... Tell me theres not a market! And the Subclub. Can never move in the place (in a good way) diverse lineups, and again, £8 in, every fri / sat / sunday. This will cause an argument probably, but it only seems to be people that go to trance nights that worry about these things, a sign perhaps? Everything else seems to be booming, we put on a few nights a while back, unknown djs, esp me at the time lol, and were sold out every month, 200 people, I reckon just cos it said "underground house and techno" on the posters. You'll like it eventually But trust me, dance music as a whole is not dieing, and the Arches isn't closing lol Sorry for the rant Been a long day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Mental Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Wish I had read the comment before mine though lol, just realised Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Mental Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Good God, thats a remarkably good rant considering I can't remember doing it, still got it LOL. But aye, Tiesto's still a cúnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakey Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Dance music is not as popular as it was 'back in the day'. Most of us on here would agree with that and that is the fundamental problem IMO. As an example, the gf asked me the other day why the music in The Arches isn't the same as it was 8-9 years ago. That says it all to me. Do you recon mate? I'm not sure really. Apparently the Hard Dance scene is taking off again as there is a 'new era' of clubbers beginning to get into it. I always thought that Dance wasn't as popular as it used to be, but I'm not sure if this was due to me changing my taste slightly and not keeping up with it much. Then again, looking back at when I first got into DJing and thinking about the magazines that were on offer, you cold take your pick from Muzik, Ministry, Mixmag, DJ etc now there aren't so many. I think the dance scene did die off abit, but I recon there is still room and time for it to come back. Definitely agree with the comments about DJ Fees and the DJs that clubs book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Mental Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Aye but Wakey mate, remember the internet wasn't quite as prominant back then, magazines were pretty baws back then anyways, besides the free cds, everything like that is available online now, I don't think that has any kind of reason to analyse it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakey Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Yeah I suppose you're right. Not really thought of it like that to be honest. Derby where I grew up has definitely died off in regards to the dance music scene. There's not half as many decent nights on these days. Hard to place a reason why to be honest. It'd be nice if it did pick up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 I don't think clubland is dying either - its still strong - I just think more people have branched out into the sub-genres and become more "pigeon holed" than they used to. Once upon a time, Trance, Hard House, Techno, House, Breaks and Drum n Bass were the main genres - now, people have branched out more - before, House was House - but now, some people prefer Electro-House, others prefer Funky-House, and Trance has been split down the middle too with line-ups either being "Real-Trance" orientated or "Tech-Trance" orientated. People can't seem to appreciate a bit of everything - they just choose one or the other - so those 3000 clubbers that filled a venue 10 years ago all liking one style have perhaps been split down the middle - with 1500 preferring "real-Trance" and the other 1500 preferring "Tech-Trance" - so the clubs look less full. This messageboard is a prime example. We all appreciated the tunes that Jules played in that 1997 show the other day. Every Trance fan loved those tunes because we all know them - that was Trance how we knew it. Now, some of us don't like the Tech-Trance sound, some of us don't like the Electro-Trance sound, etc. We've all branched out into our Trance sub-genres, and no longer enjoy what was just one genre 10 years ago - out-and-out Trance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducky Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Good answer Briggsy old boy, i guess it goes back to what was said in an earlier post, you dont get the quality of tracks these days, dependant on what type of house you wanna call it for example, you add a few dirty bits to the bassline then hey presto you have dirty house, tracks will never have the same quality or effort put into them as the tracks from 1997-2003 im afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonman Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 you dont get the quality of tracks these days, dependant on what type of house you wanna call it for example, you add a few dirty bits to the bassline then hey presto you have dirty house, tracks will never have the same quality or effort put into them as the tracks from 1997-2003 im afraid. i have to agree with this. How many real "Anthems" have we had that will be on "the best ever club anthems" in years to come? Lets be realistic about the tunes to; we've had no tunes like Darude, Faithless, Out Of The Blue etc etc. These tunes were so good they broke the pop charts. I can think of about 5 that really stick out. People are scared to make melodic tunes now for fear of being branded cheesy and its the same with Djing. Thats why minimal has become so big, because it's cool and arty people want to be seen at these gigs and their kid brother of 12 years old doesn't listen to it. not a good sign for me! I dont doubt that some trance nights are still rammed - they probably are. When i say its dying i don't mean there wont be a single trance night left, i mean there'll only be a handful worth going to. I just think the whole excitable atmosphere has been lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissie Brown Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 I'm hoping to get to Turnmills before it closes too. I was only talking about this on Christmas day to a friend of mine who lives in London and goes to Turnmills on a regular basis. He says the atmosphere is just great. BTW great discussion-very interesting. Most of the clubs down here in West Cornwall are fairly small (max capacity 500-700) with the exception of Barracuda in Newquay which accommodates 1500 clubbers. However we do get a few decent DJ's to come and play at some of the smaller clubs, Judge Jules, Dave Pearce Lisa Lashes, Eddie Haliwell are just a few l can think of that come down on a regular basis. The most we have to pay is £10 so the DJ's can't be demanding high fees when they come down here otherwise the clubs would soon go out of business. As for dance music its constantly changing so for me it never gets boring. I like a bit of house, trance, tech trance, hard house etc and don't particulary like to listen to just one genre all evening when l'm in a club. Normally there are only 2 DJ's playing at a club, the resident DJ warms up for the Big Name DJ and then after he finishes the resident DJ might come back on again depending on what time the club is closing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 Lisa Lashes I thought you said they had decent DJ's down there Chrissie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Mental Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Argh, Briggsy's answer was good, but, (and I'm going to end up sounding like a total techno purist here), The comments about 'dance' music never being as good as 'how it used to be' are completely senseless! There are ways to make music now that they didn't have back when all those trancey classics came out. Thats why I like minimal techno, not the stuff you are probably thinking of, the stuff that was coming out a couple of years ago, but stuff like Dubfire, Massi DL etc., that is new and inventive, and imho, is the same reason that you think there is no good trance classics coming out these days, and why a lot of people who, as they get older, change from trance into something different. I really don't see why a tune has to be good enough to put on a commercial mix cd, the stuff I play I'm happy playing a tune once and forgetting about it, cos I think the music you go and pay to get into clubs, and feel so passionately about, should be more about the whole listening experience, and not about waiting for "anthems" to get played. What I really mean is, trance was good, at first, and I still loving hearing loadsa old stuff that I used to near orgasm to, but its got boring! There's no point in trying to relive the past, and thats what someone said earlier, clubs get divided cos of different trance etc. But I would rather go out now and hear a new and inventive set that uses good tunes, but don't have to be great, or I'll know the name of, or have heard before, as long as it sounds good! I would bet my wages for the next 10 years that all of you that are complaining about trance being "not as good anymore", that you will change your music choices soonish. House / Techno clubs are always as busy as ever, at least up here, I reckon because the music is evolving, and not trying to copy yesteryear. Trance has to catch up, change dramatically in a new direction! (IMHO) I couldn't give a f*** about trance anymore, there is a lot more stuff that is new and excites me these days, but thats just me. And the people that used to, but don't, go to the trancey clubs that are closing down.... Possibly.... Anyways, thats enough lol, 2nd of january at 6am, just got home, sorry for yet another long winded rant!! :D Might edit this tomorrow lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonman Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 I'm happy playing a tune once and forgetting about it, cos I think the music you go and pay to get into clubs, and feel so passionately about, should be more about the whole listening experience, and not about waiting for "anthems" to get played. that to me right there states just how bland and disposable minimal is. I'd also say, if you're happy listening to a tune once and forgetting about it, then surely it can't be that good? or have i read that wrong? I'm sorry but you're never going to win me over, I'd rather hear cheese the uber cool minimal. Also, if i wanted a "listening experience" I'll listen to some Brian Eno or something similar. I hear this argument constantly from technoheads, the way i see it is, they use terms like "the listening experience" or "forward thinking intelligent dance music" to try and justify why they are simply listening to clicks and pops with a super compressed kick drum with little or no melody. Minimal is the latest fad which mixmag has created to make itself cool. By the end of the year, they'll be slating it, you'll back at your tunes and think "my god, did i really like that bollocks?" not a dig at anyone, just, as always, my own thoughts. Right, i got to start shift soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neuro Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Turnmills will now close in Easter after 23 years. In the words of Donna Summer, they're planning their own "Last Dance" in March. Official statement here: http://trance.nu/perm/news/23451 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.