POLL TIME

[emy]

Depends on the genre, as I am a drum and bass DJ (yes I know this is the Judge Jules board) promos are on vinyl, tracks are on vinyl, the DJs use vinyl

You can be 100% vinyl!

But I see with trance etc you have to make the move to CDs as they don't press vinyl

[Number2Fan]

Depends on the genre, as I am a drum and bass DJ (yes I know this is the Judge Jules board) promos are on vinyl, tracks are on vinyl, the DJs use vinyl

You can be 100% vinyl!

But I see with trance etc you have to make the move to CDs as they don't press vinyl

Ems I think I saw your avatar on crimewatch!? He really is putting me off my stride, I keep checking my purse is still in my bag!

[Aza]

Agreed! I wanted to stay with vinyl for as long as I could because I loved the 'hands on' feels - plus it made it more interesting looking through a box of records with sleeves that all looked different whereas all my CD's look the same - boring white with a sticky round label on.

I found it harder and harder to find tunes on vinyl though, plus I was already on a few MP3-only promo lists, so I switched to CD.

Agree witt this too - I've gone with CDs.

Vinyl was a right mission even when I was in my prime with it only a few years back. When I found certain tunes they were sometimes a nightmare to get hold of - often £6.50 + P+P - then you actually gotta wait for the delivery.

Mainly I liked the idea of grabbing tracks digitally and actually being able to spin them within minutes after burnign to CD. Now more and more people are actually producing using software, it seems a lot easier to then output this as WAVE or MP3. This actually means no sound quality loss - although arguably - the human ear wouldn't be able to notice the difference.

I was speaking with Simcut the other day, and we discussed the old days with HMV imports and often paying like £7.50 per tune. Now you can get around 5 top tunes, not have to wait a few weeks for shipping and not to mention the amount of storage space saved.

I still miss the vintage style of mixing with vinyl - Pioneer are getting closer and closer to that - although you can get Technics CDJ which are just like 1210's. However, I don't really agree with laptop mixing...

[Moonman]

However, I don't really agree with laptop mixing...

I really dont understand what the stigma is about using Laptops. Is it because most programs can sync the beats for you therefore most see it as "cheating"? I mean, most use laptops in conjunction with technics or CDJs, the only difference is the tunes are stored on a laptop, so technically, you still get the visualisation of Technics/CDJ's that many crave, and most DJ's (me included) manually beatmatch the tunes - personally i wouldnt trust a computer to do it. So i really am struggling to see why people dont seem to like using a laptop. The whole idea of a laptop crashing is a load of baloney too. Mine has never crashed live, and i've never heard a DJ using a laptop whose has crashed. its no different to when a CD skips. The whole "checking e-mails" thing makes me laugh to. When i play out, i give it 110%, i dont even activate internet access. Anyway, even if i was checking e-mails, its no different to checking a text on a mobile phone is it not?

Then, i remember this exact same attitude about 4 years ago when DJ's wouldnt transfer to CD's, but ultimately did because of the pros. Ultimately though, i think its change. CDJs are now the norm, yet it looks like more and more are starting to use laptops, and its the stubborn ones who wont give it a go that are digging their heels in - i should know, cos i was one of those stubborn people.

If someone can give me a solid, valid point as to why using laptops is rubbish, i shall pipe down.

[Aza]

Fair points, Moonman, and very well said, you always put valid and worthwhile points across in your posts and I enjoy reading them.

For me anyways, it just seems much less practical, there's no mechanics to laptop mixing.

When on the decks, you drop a mix, it goes out of synch, what do you do? You have to actually touch the tune to speed it up/slow down. You can still do the same thing with CDJs, but I still miss the old style of it on the 1210's.

I used to love tweaking a tune a little bit faster in the mix, pinching the spindle and flicking it forward a little - it seems like you were right in the thick of it.

I guess for me, the old laptop thing may well creep in if the 'pros' were to do it. I think like you stated above, I just can't help thinking of the little cheating thing either. I mean you download tracks and just click away and it your Djing? Fair enough at a wedding or whatever, but the 'proper' club scene is best with 'hands on'

Also take Eddie Halliwell for example. His style could hardly be mimicked on a laptop; cueing up live whilst a tune is playing and dropping it the way he does, could you ever scratch like he does on a laptop? One reason I admire him and are inspired by him as a DJ is that he always says that it came down to practice. Hours and hours of training - just like with anything really (sports, even academic revision). I'm not saying that you are not talented playing on laptops, but (IMO!!!) you don't need to prepare for it like you do with 'real decks'

[Number2Fan]

I aint paying good money to get into a club and watch some bloke playing a mix out on a laptop, I've seen it done, it's crap!!

It may sound fairly good, but so do some mixed compilation CD's but there is no SOUL in them and there isn't in a laptop DJ live either!

[Max Kane]

I mean I was thinking last night how do you manage with CDs? How do you download tracks? Do you download one track per CD but then you would have to buy loads of CDs, so if you burn 10 tracks per CD you can't then mix say track two with track four on one CD so do you burn another????

Also what if you want to cut in a phrase halfway through the track? How do you find it on a CD deck? With Vinyl you can just put the needle on and find a part dead easy

In fact how do you mix with CDs, how do you isolate one beat on one track to mix into the other track?

Right here goes...

The issue of burning tracks is divided among everyone I've spoken to between burning an individual track or release to a single disc & as you say having many more CDs OR doing as I & many others do, burn a CD with say 10 tracks on & then burn it again as an exact duplicate, therein allowing you to mix between any of the tracks.

As regards finding a specific place on a CDJ there is 'Vinyl mode' where you interpret the jog wheel as you would a turntable spinning it forward or backward to find your point & going from there, there are the small 'Search' buttons on the Pioneer equipment which allow you to literally go through every 100th of a second of each track so your cue points are amazingly accurate.

There is also the 'Auto Cue' function which instantly takes the track to the first beat & cues it for you, allowing you to press play & hit the mix straight away from beat one

[Moonman]

whilst not to everyones tastes, here's James Zabiela rocking GK, Ukraine - and he using a laptop!

JAMES ZABIELA ROCKING A CLUB - THE CROWD DONT SEEM TO CARE ABOUT THE LAPTOP

Again, James Zabiela getting animated behind the CDJs...again, he's playing tunes from a laptop...

i just searched Traktor scratch and these two came up...theres load for serato too....

but, i think that blows a few comments out of the water. I think you've just got to open your mind and embrace technology. I used to be a big laptop hater, and i once thought like number 2 fan. Then i had a go, and instantly my mind was made up. This is the way its going to go, and its just as much fun.

Ive seen numerous other DJs play out on laptops and you would never notice if you didnt look. To say you refuse to go and see someone playing on a laptop is silly. I go for the music first, not what a DJ is playing out with.

Not having a pop at anyone, just forwarding some valid points for an interesting conversation.

[Briggsy]

If someone can give me a solid, valid point as to why using laptops is rubbish, i shall pipe down.

I've nothing against laptops if they're being used properly. Greg Downey uses a laptop - but he uses final scratch, so he's mixing as if he would using normal CD decks. This I have no objections to because he's still actually DJ'ing an 'in control' - is laptop is, pretty much, just acting as his storage device - instead of carrying a wallet of cd's, he's taking a hard drive full of tunes. Therefore, I have no problems with that.

What I do object to is people like PvD, who have got very lazy and have started 'banging' tunes in on Ableton. There's no skills or entertainment value to getting the laptop to match the beats, and then just banging the tunes in with hardly any mixing.

I aint paying good money to get into a club and watch some bloke playing a mix out on a laptop, I've seen it done, it's crap!!

I do agree with that too. Since going down the laptop route, DJ's like Adam Sheridan have forgotten there's a crowd in front of them. They constantly tinker with their laptop and never take their eyes off the screen - they also look bored. Adma Sheridan is the worst for that. He constantly looks depressed when he's DJ'ing. I also like to watch DJ's mixing - i'm often by the booth watching DJ's to see what I can learn - particularly when 'entertainer' DJ's such as Eddie Halliwell or Richard Durand are on with three or four decks and scratching, etc. I see people using PC's at work all day - so I don't want to go out clubbing to see the same again.

[Max Kane]

Zabiela has always embraced technology, I remember first seeing him back a few years ago at Gods using a laptop & EFX unit & it was something totally unique, the guy is definately an innovator

[Moonman]

i've heard him a few times, he's the one DJ i WILL check out this year. The more older i get the more prog i get....so it's DJs like him i like to listen to now.

[Moonman]

I do agree with that too. Since going down the laptop route, DJ's like Adam Sheridan have forgotten there's a crowd in front of them. They constantly tinker with their laptop and never take their eyes off the screen - they also look bored. Adma Sheridan is the worst for that. He constantly looks depressed when he's DJ'ing. I also like to watch DJ's mixing - i'm often by the booth watching DJ's to see what I can learn - particularly when 'entertainer' DJ's such as Eddie Halliwell or Richard Durand are on with three or four decks and scratching, etc. I see people using PC's at work all day - so I don't want to go out clubbing to see the same again.

Adam Sheridan always looks depressed though. When i saw him a few years ago at Goodgreef i think it was, he was just using CDJ's looking all po faced.

[Judge Mental]

I must say, I used to be all for dj's going mental behind the decks and stuff, but to be honest I couldn't really care less anymore.

Aye it can be good, but if the music's good and the crowd are responding, and my ass is shaking, the dj could be reading a book in the toilet while he mixes for all I care!

So for me, technology will never get in the way of a good night. The more a dj can add to the night the better, and whether thats clicking a few parameters on an ableton effect, sprinting about the dj booth mixing 5 vinyls, or just plain old letting an entire tune playing without touching it, if it works, I'm happy!

[Moonman]

I must say, I used to be all for dj's going mental behind the decks and stuff, but to be honest I couldn't really care less anymore.

Aye it can be good, but if the music's good and the crowd are responding, and my ass is shaking, the dj could be reading a book in the toilet while he mixes for all I care!

So for me, technology will never get in the way of a good night. The more a dj can add to the night the better, and whether thats clicking a few parameters on an ableton effect, sprinting about the dj booth mixing 5 vinyls, or just plain old letting an entire tune playing without touching it, if it works, I'm happy!

Thats the attitude to take.