Have we been wrong about the decline of Jules?

[kml]

Discuss

[Quadrant]

Stealing somebody's post from a few years ago, Jules's positions have been:

1997 - #4

1998 - #3

1999 - #4

2000 - #6

2001 - #11

2002 - #7

2003 - #9

2004 - #14

2005 - #15

2006 - #16

2007 - #21

2008 - #32

2009 - #44

2010 - #18

I predict that Jules will have got the bullett from Radio 1 within 6 Months....you wait and see!

(sorry Sir Moonman! ) :mrgreen:

[Number2Fan]

Moonman won't care, he's in lurve now.

As for the Jules issue, I think he has gone down in quality but is adapting to the modern Market hence his rise in position this year. I doubt he'll ever be at the top again though.

[JasonB]

Seconded.

[Max Kane]

Have only seen him once this year and though his choice of tracks was abhorrent I still found myself enjoying his set, regardless of how he may decline there really isn't any better DJ at just lighting up a venue.

[Number2Fan]

Yeah true.

[milkybarkid]

How relevant are these polls though? Anyone I speak to who isn't into trance, mocks it and calls it the 'Trance 100 Poll'. They always rattle off a list of names who should/shouldn't feature (some very hard to argue with too).

The other factor is, Jules seems to really value this poll. Maybe all dj's are the same (I can't say as I don't follow too many others closely), but it seemed that each and everything Jules related for the months when the poll was open was geared towards you to voting for him. Every 2nd tweet, every Club Diary, every page on his site, all had a link urging you to vote for him. He has commented since that he's absolutely delighted to be back in the top twenty again. Obviously it's a very big thing for him.

Don't get me wrong, I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with what he did, or his reasons why he pushes it, far from it, it's good to see him in the top twenty again. I'm merely questioning the substance of the poll itself.

[Chrissie Brown]

I think l read, in one of his diary reports, that he gets more overseas bookings if he gets a decent placing in the polls.

I have to confess that l always enjoy going to see Jules djing, (especially in Ibiza) in my opinion he's never boring despite the dodgy bootlegs he sometimes plays. I'm hoping to go back to Ibiza again next year, can't wait!

[Number2Fan]

Tbf last time I saw Armin I thought the quality of tunes he was playing had slipped. I'd rather see Jules than many of the Djs above him in the poll. He's fun.

[Neuro]

Of course a lot of it is marketing. But that's the same in any business really; however flawed it is, the fact remains that there isn't another medium that measures the popularity of any given DJ, except the DJMag Top 100 Poll.

I liked this from Armin's (rated #1 again) interview. It not only highlights how much older Jules actually is compared to the rest of the field; it also shows how vital an Internet-based DJ fanbase is:

Source: http://www.djmag.com/top100/detail/2585

Armin: "My fans are so important to me because I'm a fan myself, I guess," he continues. "When I used to ride to school on my bicycle, taping Dutch radio shows with electronic dance music, I always promised myself that if I was ever in a position to do anything like that, then I would start my own radio show, to share the music to people who don't have the money or time to buy their own records. So that's what I did, in 2001 started a radio show just as the internet was booming, and thanks to downloads, my music got everywhere around the world." Armin's A State Of Trance (ASOT) radio show has become big now - huge, in fact. The show has 15 million listeners weekly in 26 different countries, including his own day on Sirius XM in the US - 24 hours of ASOT. As well as the enormous gigs, this perhaps explains a lot of his career-growth and popularity, but at first he did sometimes wonder what he was doing.

"Everyone thought I was crazy at the time, only Pete Tong and Judge Jules were doing weekly radio shows," he recalls.

"I remember colleagues saying, 'What are you doing? I didn't make any money out of it and it caused me a lot of work, but it meant I was completely up-to-date with all the latest music." As more and more stations started to license the show, Armin believes that ASOT has been crucial to his enduring popularity. "It really helped my career, and trance fans are really loyal," he says. "In some cases David Guetta might sell more tickets than me in some countries, where house music is more popular, but in a way, the trance fans are perhaps more devoted. The intensity I feel sometimes is so enormous, people treat trance music as more like a religion maybe, even though house music has its fans, of course."

I'll never hide the fact that Jules's vinyl era from 1997-2003 changed my life and entire appreciation of electronic music, and that alone is why this website exists

[Chrissie Brown]

Tbf last time I saw Armin I thought the quality of tunes he was playing had slipped. I'd rather see Jules than many of the Djs above him in the poll. He's fun.

I agree with what you say, l went to see Armin @ Amnesia in Ibiza in sept (his closing party), he was playing a 7 hour set but tbh after 3 hours l had had enough. Don't get me wrong he was very good and so were the live PA's but it all started to sound very "samey" so l didn't stay to the end. It was much the same when l went to see Tiesto @ Privilege and Deadmau5 @ Amnesia, got a bit boring after 2 hours. Whereas when l go to Judgement Sundays the time goes far too quickly. The DJ l really rated in Ibiza this year was Sied Van Riel (not sure if l've spelt his name correctly) he played a blinding set @ Amnesia and his mixing was spot on! :thumbsup:

[Ian_k]

jules has himself commented in his own diaries that the poll is good for mainly for overseas bookings, mainly i think in the us where they keep a keen eye on the poll in terms of booking djs.

The rules of the dj mag poll say you can plug the poll as much as you want and market yourself for plugs via social networking sites, you just can't rig the votes and get agencies to do massive vote rigging scams where they get 100's of users to all vote off different ip addresses etc.

In terms of his market, i guess he's possibly a big name version of dave pearce in essence, maybe appealing to more commercial market in the uk, ask anyone who knows a good background about EDM and they will slate him, and they cant understand why he's headlining some gigs such as godskitchen, mainly due to musical choice and bad mixing, personally i think thats got a lot to do with mixing on the fly and rushing them, and not preparing the mix and taking time on it, i in the headphones, before the final mix and playing it live......

Contrary to what people say about music and mixing though, iv heard it many a times said that he's still a legend in terms of the scene and still despite his age one of the most energetic dj's behind the decks out there.

[Number2Fan]

Interesting post Neuro. Interesting thread actually.

[JasonB]

Him being legend isnt the thing, the fact that our tastes have changed so we dont like some stuff jules plays these days is the thing. We all move on.

[Tremor]

I think you're right Jason. We all winge about bootlegs or mashups (myself included) but actually Jules has always played gimmick records in amongst original productions. Stuff like Hani - 'Drugs Are Bad' and many other mashups and remixes were around back in his strongest part of his career and back then I loved those tunes, still do with that example. He's always known how to work a crowd by dropping in tunes people can easily recognise and connect with as well as more underground stuff. I think it is the current trend of the sound that I've gone off. The electro-trance sound is good in some cases but I don't like too much of it because I prefer the old style trance. However the new clubbing generation love that sound so I guess in some respects Jules hasn't changed that much - still plays to the crowds which is really what any good DJ should do. The only real shame is how his mixing has suffered over recent years through too much drinking while on the job in my opinion. The old live shows from 2000 were tightly mixed so he's definitely more than capable. The other thing which has effected the quality of tunes is the move to MP3s - too many average tracks making it to DJ's these days.

[Craig Bradley]

I totally agree , tunes don't sound as warm these days aswell there's too much emphasis on mastering and too much high end. A lot of producers these days concentrate on making a perfect sounding track rather than focusing on the melodies ect there doesn't seem to be many melodies in tunes these days which is what i think trance is all about making you feel electric and have the goosebumps feeling. I sent one of my tunes out the other day and was given some advice that i should slow my tunes down. I appreciate this advice but i just love the trance which is pitched up a bit more. I think the energy is lost when you play tunes around 130bpm - 135bpm it sounds too much like house music. I just don't think i could start making that style of electro trance it's just not me. It seems like the electro / house sound is dominating the charts at the moment and hence trance music that is produced these days is really heavily influenced by this. Anyway i'm going to stop going on about it now lol it's just hard when your trying to get noticed but you won't get noticed because the sound you produce isn't what's about anymore.

[Briggsy]

Tremor - I agree that Jules has always played the odd suspect tune, but in a club, i'd say at least 50% of Jules's sets are made up of bootlegs.

Its the bootlegs that let Jules down. A bootleg should be something interesting - created with two or more tracks to make something completely new out of them. Unfortunately, Jules opts for needless bootlegs that consist of shocking samples from well known tunes, or vocals from Indie tunes. Jules has played far too many Indie bootlegs over the past 3 years. If people want to hear Indie, they'll go to an indie night - not a Trance night. Remember that shocking bootleg that Jules played last year - that horrid Soft Cell - Tainted Love vs Southside Spinners - Luvstruck? Not only did he play it, but he was responsible for making it! Awful!

Jules may still have a large fan base - but these are now a commercial crowd. Jules's sets are geared more towards the commercial bar/chain-owned club rather than a 'proper' Trance club such as Godskitchen or Gatecrasher. Jules no longer fits in at places like Godskitchen - he kills the dance floor and gets left bad feedback on forums and Facebook the day afterwards - although Jules will state in his diary that "the crowd were loving it". I remember him using that line to describe a gig he played for Gatecrasher at Magna a couple of years ago - but I was there that night and the dancefloor went from being full, to half capacity in the space of about 20 minutes. They were far from loving it.

If Jules could sort his tunes/bootlegs out, and put some concentration back into the flow of his sets (rather than those random sets that he posts as his online mixes each month), then he could still be up there amongst the best because, on his day, Jules is still outstanding.

I remember seeing him at The Gallery about a year ago, and he played quite a hard set for him - similar to the old Picotto/BXR sound. The flow was spot on, his mixing was good, and there wasn't a dodgy bootleg in sight - and then I saw him a month later, and he was the complete opposite - no flow, a set full of bootlegs, and it appeared that he'd lost his dancefloor.

Jules will always be a legend, and he'll always be my favourite DJ of all time - but unfortunately, regardless of what the DJ poll says, I think his best days are behind him and he should focus on more mainstream gigs where his current style is more suited rather than the 'proper' Trance clubs.

[Quadrant]

There's a common theme here - consistency.

It's impossible for DJs to have this, I believe, because tunes come in batches; i.e. you get a dearth of no good tunes and then loads all come at once. Not even your favourite DJ will ace every remix or track in production, and the same goes for DJing. These days I'm very much a mellow House bod these days yet I'm still stupidly loyal to Jules because of his ability many years ago in my youth with regards tune selection and unusual capacity to create energy and atmosphere, often out of nothing. The lack of consistency is almost the most exciting bit about Jules - that love/hate relationship, that not knowing whether he'll pull out your favourite track you'be been waiting all evening for, or something completely bizarre and annoying.

We all know secretly (and selfishly) that Trance is the most emotive, passionate, incredible and mind-blowing genre of music possible on the planet. Either you understand it or you don't. And, if for fleeting moments, Jules has provided that understanding many times over for me in years gone by

What a good thread this is, by the way... I think everyone has made a serious and valid point here so far.

[milkybarkid]

Re: Tremor. I'd like to expand a wee bit on your point about Jules always playing gimmicks/bootlegs. I was thinking about this the other day. While he always did play these sort of tunes years ago, it was always just the right side of cheese. He'd play a proper trance tune with a vocal over the top, Toca's Miracle for example. His gimmick tunes (by and large) were still proper tunes underneath, Mario Piu The Library, Nappy Hardcore etc. They all had a gimmicky cheesey sample, but a decent tune at the heart of it, so even though it wasn't everyone's cup of tea, it didn't put you off. And, even if you despised it, you knew it was in the minority, so you didn't mind so much, which isn't always the case today.

Now though, it's the opposite. He's taking poppy chart songs, and tries to squeeze a trance tune around them, rather than the other way around. The trance element seems to be the afterthought.

As Jason said too, it's all our tastes which have evolved. But this often makes me wonder, why has Jules taste not evolved too, or is he happy with the stuff he's playing? As someone said above, he does seem capable of playing stuff that it would seem would appeal to us 'old guard', so he obviously still has the ear for it. Maybe he just chooses not to use it..

[Craig Bradley]

It's liked i said in another post though i don't think it's Jules fault he tries to do what he can with whats about at the moment. There is a lot of crap records about and most djs are playing the same kinda tunes. I'm sure that when trance comes back around again Jules will be at the front of it again.

[Craig Bradley]

It's like i said in another post it's not Jules fault he does what he can with whats about at the moment. There is a lot of crap records about and most djs are playing the same kinda tunes. I'm sure that when trance comes back around again Jules will be at the front of it again.

[Briggsy]

It's liked i said in another post though i don't think it's Jules fault he tries to do what he can with whats about at the moment. There is a lot of crap records about and most djs are playing the same kinda tunes. I'm sure that when trance comes back around again Jules will be at the front of it again.

There are loads of crap tunes about - but there always has been. The likes of Armin, John O'Callaghan, Bryan Kearney, Greg Downey, etc still manage to find good quality tunes to stay on top of their game - but Jules is ignoring them.

Jules does not have to play (and certainly doesn't have to produce) those awful indie bootlegs that he plays - there are enough good tunes out there to construct a set with.

I can't see how Jules can be defended really. There are some superb unknown DJs on loads of forums out there that always find good tunes and always pull off outstanding sets, yet Jules, who has access to pretty much any tune he wants, for free, feels the need to play shit novelty bootlegs that sound completely out of place in a Trance club.

The tunes are certainly no excuse for the sloppy mixing and lack of set flow either. You've only got to download one of his monthly mixes to hear the lack of flow. His sets are up and down all the time and they lose energy. He'll mix a Techy tune into an uplifting tune, followed by a pitched up proggy tune, followed by a techy tune again.

I don't get it because as I mentioned above, he can still take me by surprise and pull off a set that was like the Jules of old - well built set and mixed well - but sadly, those are rare these days

As for Trance coming back again - well, its nothing like 1999 any more, but for the past few years, Trance has dominated the top 100 DJ's poll - the top 10 alone usually has about 7 Trance DJ's in it - so that shows that Trance is still popular amongst the masses.

[Ian_k]

There are loads of crap tunes about - but there always has been. The likes of Armin, John O'Callaghan, Bryan Kearney, Greg Downey, etc still manage to find good quality tunes to stay on top of their game - but Jules is ignoring them.

Jules does not have to play (and certainly doesn't have to produce) those awful indie bootlegs that he plays - there are enough good tunes out there to construct a set with.

I can't see how Jules can be defended really. There are some superb unknown DJs on loads of forums out there that always find good tunes and always pull off outstanding sets, yet Jules, who has access to pretty much any tune he wants, for free, feels the need to play shit novelty bootlegs that sound completely out of place in a Trance club.

The tunes are certainly no excuse for the sloppy mixing and lack of set flow either. You've only got to download one of his monthly mixes to hear the lack of flow. His sets are up and down all the time and they lose energy. He'll mix a Techy tune into an uplifting tune, followed by a pitched up proggy tune, followed by a techy tune again.

you mention the sloppy mixing and the set flow,

watch the dj's of jules at http://www.be-at.tv/ and you'll work the reasons why

the sloppy mixing is down to mixing on the fly - this is a dj thing, but basically he mixes tunes at last min on the fly, and doesnt pre-mix them first and then do the final mix near the end of the track, like a lot of djs do, to make sure things are correct, also the sennheiser hd25sp headphones personally i dont think are upto the job

as for set flow, this goes back to what i mentioned above, watch the vids at http://www.be-at.tv/ and you'll work it out

[Craig Bradley]

i agree briggsy but the sound that's about is boring and dull there's no energy there i prefer it when trance is pitched up like +2-4 on a deck for example not played at 130-135bpm there's just no energy also i noticed from that be@.tv that the videos of trance sets compared to the old times the crowd don't seem to be up for it you don't see no bouncing no people really dancing its just like there standing around and just a few people putting there arms in the air now and again. Check out this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCqCATDeWyU

anyone of those trance energy 2001 vids are awesome.

[JasonB]

I have to agree there are always good tracks about, its just all abut digging deeper for them.