The dance music/clubbing scene - do you enjoy it as much now?

[Briggsy]

Most of us have been on here for years and been into dance music for even longer - so what are your thoughts on dance music and clubbing these days. Do you like it as much as when you first got into it? Do you like it even more? or do you still have a bit of interest, but find that you don't enjoy it as much as you used to?

What triggered this thread was me listening to Jules's show on Friday. Once upon a time, I used to listen to the show religiously - and hated missing a show because I loved the vast majority of what Jules was playing. I listened on Friday - and switched off after 30 minutes because I hated every tune he played, and found the tunes to be really slow, boring and far too similar to other tunes that are out there at the moment.

Years ago, I used to be really open minded and enjoyed a bit of everything - House, Trance, Techno whether it be 128bpm or 142bpm - and didn't really have a "style" when DJ'ing - but over the last 18 months or so, i've found I dislike more DJs than I like, and when people post their "tune of the moment" in threads, I listen to them and think "thats really boring". I used to be really passionate about clubbing and DJ'ing - I couldn't wait to go out, and I'd be on the decks every day. These days, i'm not bothered about going out because, with the exception of about 4 DJs, most DJs bore me now. As for the decks - well, I quit DJ'ing due to hearing problems - but even before then, I was losing interest and only played a specific style (full-on 140+bpm driving Trance or Hard Techno).

Do you still enjoy it as much as you used to? If not, what's changed for you?

[milkybarkid]

I'm in the same boat as you, I think. Back when Jules was in his pomp, the enthusiasm and passion I had for music back then was something I thought would never fade. I had decks, knew every record I had inside out. When Tong or Jules played a tune you liked, you may have chased it, or hunted in vain for a year or so, but that tune mattered. Even if you were lucky enough to find it, you'd never tire of hearing it, no matter how may times you played it.

I sold my decks and records around 2004 or so for financial reasons, and always pined for the enthusiasm and hype I had for the scene. Bought decks about a year ago, and I never thought I'd be so apathetic and lethargic towards the whole scene and music in general.

Personally, I think it's over saturation of tunes. Years ago, you better be damn sure you had a proper tune on your hands before anyone would even think of pressing a vinyl of it. Now, release a tune a week online, until one of them becomes a hit or gets supported. Then, release another tune a week.

[Briggsy]

Yeah you're absolutely spot on with that last bit. I think years ago, 95% of the tunes were good - it was just a case of finding tunes that suited our style/taste. These days, there are labels galore - and a lot of them don't even have an identity (a sound you can associate with that label). I think some of the labels start up simply so that the label owner can release their own work on that label - and the reason they do that is because their work isn't good enough and has been rejected by numerous other labels first. They're determined they're gonna release that track though - so the only option is to start up their own label - then we end up having to search through loads of crap tunes on Trackitdown/Beatport before we find one decent one.

The other major change I feel has changed for the worse is producers seemingly producing for success/money rather than because they've thought of a cracking melody and a unique bassline one day and feel that they'd love to put it together in a production. It seems that now, as soon a producer has success with a particular sound, other producers want to copy it. A few years ago, producers were copying the Deadmau5 sound. At the moment, loads of producers want to copy the Swedish House Mafia sound. Why? Because:

1. Its the "in-sound" at the moment and there's a chance it could have some commercial success - and thats where the money is.

2. it'll get them recognized - and then with recognition becomes higher placings in the DJ Mag poll - which then results in DJ bookings - and thats also where the money is.

Everything about the scene at the moment seems to be fame or money orientated. Even those breaking through at our level take it far too seriously now. Its no longer a hobby for them - instead, they all want to "make it" and become career DJs. A few of them think they can ask for £150 to play just because they've played in the 3rd room at the Ministry of Sound or played for Nu:Passion once. A few of them that have only been DJ'ing for 5 minutes don't want to "work their way up" the hard way like everyone had to 10 years ago - these days, they're prepared to pay a producer £200 to create a tune for them and then release it as their own work so that they can get some recognition. Its all desperation because they know that if they break through, they can earn £300 just as a warm-up DJ at an established night for 90 minutes work - whereas if they had a 'normal' job, they'd have to work for a whole week to earn the same amount of money.

Too many producers and DJ's are no longer doing it as a hobby - they're doing it to make a career out of it - and thats why I feel the fun has gone out of it.

[Briggsy]

Ah a long waffling post. Its been a while since I did one of those.

*crawls back under rock*

[Number2Fan]

My answer isn't up there?

[Max Kane]

I enjoy it less - for a multitude of reasons.

I haven't been clubbing for a good while now and that's largely due to my falling out of love with trance and, more recently, the style of music I am into having a miniscule presence here in the UK.

I did start to get bored of DJing but over the summer I took a decision to totally shift focus to a more underground sound (which I now play) as it was way more interesting than the progressive stuff I had been playing (which has been watered down by the big boys wading in to it and destroying it).

Gigs wise I got tired of promoters trying to rip me off (I never once agreed to sell tickets for a gig) and the associative bullshit that comes with trying to be a DJ - not to make but just to do it for enjoyment.

I'll address some other aspects of this thread upon which I have an opinion shortly

[Max Kane]

Everything about the scene at the moment seems to be fame or money orientated. Even those breaking through at our level take it far too seriously now. Its no longer a hobby for them - instead, they all want to "make it" and become career DJs. A few of them think they can ask for £150 to play just because they've played in the 3rd room at the Ministry of Sound or played for Nu:Passion once. A few of them that have only been DJ'ing for 5 minutes don't want to "work their way up" the hard way like everyone had to 10 years ago - these days, they're prepared to pay a producer £200 to create a tune for them and then release it as their own work so that they can get some recognition. Its all desperation because they know that if they break through, they can earn £300 just as a warm-up DJ at an established night for 90 minutes work - whereas if they had a 'normal' job, they'd have to work for a whole week to earn the same amount of money.

Too many producers and DJ's are no longer doing it as a hobby - they're doing it to make a career out of it - and thats why I feel the fun has gone out of it.

Some points in here (and your wider post) I totally agree with, some I do not.

The producer vs DJ thing has been going on for quite a while and, it seems, is just the way it is now. DJs are no longer simply DJs, they cannot be. They have to be a "brand", to have, as Jules himself says, "the full package" - productions, DJing, online presence, radio show, podcast, etc, etc.

What this has to do with being able to DJ is anyone's guess but, as Briggsy says, it all comes down to money.

In these times promoters need to make sure that they do not lose money on their nights as it could, literally, bankrupt their whole operation in one foul swoop. Having a guy who is widely known and recognised (even if this is through production) will likely sell more tickets than the best 17 deck mixer who loops 6 CDJs and creates live flawless tracks in Ableton, all while giving the promoter a handjob, but who you have never heard of.

That's the bottom line for promoters now - ticket sales. And it is that way because (and this is especially true for trance music) people do not care as much anymore. Trance is not big business as it once was and it's bloody hard work to get people to come into the club in the first place.

I do not like this fact (as I think the quality of promotions has suffered to a great degree) but I accept it and have first hand experience of it.

The second aspect of the above post I want to address is the "up & coming DJs" bit. Perhaps it resonates with me more as I am one of those DJs who has "played in the 3rd room at the Ministry of Sound or played for Nu:Passion".

I took those gigs and played for free - I never once agreed to sell a quota of tickets (as I know a majority of similar DJs did). I played the gigs as they were unique opportunities to play at two venues which I idolised as a youngster. To actually DJ anywhere (even in the f****** cloakroom would be awesome) at MOS was a dream come true and I would do so again in a heartbeat. I was lucky enough to play the Baby Box at MOS twice and they were two of the best gigs I ever played.

Nu:PaSSion was a similar deal - I played for PaSSIon four times, twice in the small White Room, once in the Red Room and even got to open the collosal Blue Room (main room) on one occasion. Again I would not trade this experience for anything else - it was magnificent and I did it, as I know a lot of the other guys who did the same did, for the privilege to play that historic club. I earned no money from it and did not try to whore myself out on the back of it (to any great extent).

Now, let me clarify, I am no superstar and nor did I pertain to be anything remotely close to this BUT I served my apprenticeship as a DJ. I played a whole heap of shows right from playing to 6 people in a basement in Darlington (BigSteve from this board being one of them) having driven for 4 hours to get there and receiving about £20 in petrol money, I played for 20-odd mental German tourists at a club in Plymouth who were requesting hardcore at 9pm, in short I played a lot of shit gigs (which I massively enjoyed for the most part) and I played the ones I allude to earlier in this post (the ones with at least a little prestige).

Despite this (and I must reiterate that I do not think I am a superstar) I got zero preferencial treatment to DJs who had never played out and had no experience and also had a sound which was totally inappropriate for the timeslot we were competing for (opening/early sets).

The problem being with all this that there is no chance, or point, in DJs trying to "work their way up". I worked my way up as far as it was physically possible to do without selling tickets and becomming a promoter's bitch and that's the problem. There is no chance of DJs making it anymore, it simply will not happen.

Sorry for the endless post but getting tarred with the "Nu:PaSSion and third room at MOS" brush really does annoy me sometimes when I was totally different to the vast majority of those who undertook similar gigs but with totally different contracts/obligations

[Briggsy]

Sorry for the endless post but getting tarred with the "Nu:PaSSion and third room at MOS" brush really does annoy me sometimes when I was totally different to the vast majority of those who undertook similar gigs but with totally different contracts/obligations

That comment wasn't aimed at you - so i'm sorry if you feel offended by it. I wasn't suggesting that all of the Nu:Passion/MoS guys are like that - what I was stating is that there are a few DJs out there that think they're bigger than they are and have a really massive ego just because they've played for one of those brands - I don't need to name names, it'll only open a can of worms and they'll register on here just to kick-off. I think the initials "JH", "RS" and "SW" are suffice. They're all appalling DJs that shouldn't be allowed near a set of decks (although to be fair to the latter, he has worked quite hard by running his own nights, learning to produce, etc - so he deserves some recognition) - but the other two have 'cheated' their way there. Again, if you know who i'm referring to, you'll be aware of their 'tactics'.

Unfortunately, Nu:Passion have had some bloody good DJs in yourself, Matt Farmer, Leibo, etc - but you, and them, haven't had anywhere near as many bookings as you should have because you're DJs, not ticket-sellers - whilst they've got a couple of appalling DJs that play there on almost every line-up, because they sell 30 tickets each every time. Its these same few DJs that have a massive ego too.

I can see promotors points about needing ticket sellers to pull punters in - but I can't help feel there's a bit of "catch 22" there too. If people are buying tickets, and then hearing those DJs that can't beatmatch or string a set together, that can hardly leave them (the clubbers) with a burning desire to go back again to the next event?

Maybe i'm just getting too old. I've seen what the scene was, seen where its heading with all the politics, bullshit and arse-licking, and don't like what its become. I'll go get my slippers, pipe and stick Classic FM on...

[Max Kane]

That comment wasn't aimed at you - so i'm sorry if you feel offended by it.

My retort wasn't so much aimed directly at you mate (as I know you have a better knowledge of the situation) but a general remark. People put two and two together and seem to think that we were all in the same mould as those you allude to.

Promoters get by with this as they squirrel the untalented guys who sell tickets (but are awful) in the smaller White Room and let them play to their 20 mates. The only problem is that they put them on at 10pm and the guys are so clueless that they start smashing it out at 137+

I had to follow a few of the "lesser" DJs when I played there and they have not got a clue

[milkybarkid]

Have you ever had to follow someone bashing it out at 138+ early Tom? How would you go about it? Just match the speed and gradually bring it down (if you weren't planning on keeping the speed up), try slowing his last tune down a bit (I'd imagine this wouldn't go down well with the previous dj)? I'd say playing a tune with no beat and an intro at 130 wouldn't work either, due to the noticeable gap in bpm, surely you'd lose a good grip on the crowd?

[Max Kane]

I've had to follow on from DJs playing way too fast, too early, quite a few times. It all depends on the context of the event as to the way I approach it.

My usual trick would be to just casually knock their tempo down a little and then either loop their track a bit to decrease the bpm or use the flange effect on it while dropping the bpm so as it isn't as noticable. If the DJ is that clueless anyway then I really don't care about offending them that much - on more than one occasion I actually asked them why they were playing so innappropriately (in a nice manner) to make a point of their idiocy.

I have encountered it where the crowd is loving it though and they obviously want a higher bpm - that's pretty difficult to address but in that instance I'd mix in as normal and maybe knock it down one or two bpm (depending on the previous DJ's bpm) and play as normal but with a higher tempo from the off - as long as I didn't increase the tempo as much as I normally would then the night as a whole wouldn't suffer as badly as it may have.

I did on one occasion let the previous DJ's track just play out and then used an intro - normally I wouldn't do this out of respect but there were about 10 people in the room and the whole night was in danger of being ruined. I decided to "cut the losses" and just start afresh to try and get people in to it. I used the excuse to the previous DJ that I was recording my set (which I was) to pass off my using an intro track. To be fair this DJ was utterly clueless anyway, they played an Oceanlab track (with Cosmic Gate remix) at 140bpm at 10pm!

I took the promoter to task on that as I had (in the least diva way possible) tried to ensure that the opening DJ knew what they were doing and obviously they did not. I had driven through bank holiday traffic for over 5 hours to get to the gig and was mightly pissed off that it had almost been ruined prior to my actually taking over! Luckily the into track managed to work ok and the place did fill up a little more.

It's tough though - I'm not naturally an aggressive/arrogant type so I do try not to offend people but sometimes you just have to ignore their pride to make sure everyone else who has paid to come in has a good night.

[milkybarkid]

Thanks Tom, that's great advice.

I'm ashamed to say that I was the perpetrator of a scenario like that, though I do have (I think anyway) some mitigating circumstances, but I can't help but think how beneficial it may have been if me and my mate were even a bit more savvy.

For starters, it was around 1998, me and my mate played as a duo back then. Nearly everything we played was trancy, proggy stuff around the 140 mark, as was the norm then really. We never deviated from that style, unless playing even harder stuff at the end of the night. We'd played in the same nightclub already, just warming up in the more commercial downstairs area, and stuck to the same style. This gig was for the student night upstairs, a proper dance night with many bigger techno/trance/ house djs. Marshall Jefferson, Dave Angel, Col Hamilton and a few of the bigger Scottish/ Irish trance and even hard house djs.

We should really not been given the booking in the first place if our style wasn't suiting, but also, being naive 17 year old lads, we hadn't the savvy to do a bit of research on who was after us or ask what they wanted. We were just delirious at getting the gig. We were told it was the resident headlining, and he normally played a mixed bag of stuff.

Well, we just played our normal stuff, though I swear, my mate was just dropping the hardest tune we had when he (the resident) walked in (Anthony Atcherly, In My House iirc), as it was still early, empty, and my mate was really just road-testing it, and I hadn't really heard it before. His face nearly fell through the floor! I saw it, my mate did, and we knew right away, we're f#cked here. Talk about timing! The thing was though, when he actually started, he started off break-beat at around 128, slowing our tune down till it just sounded ridiculous. We were never going to fit in with his sound, no matter what.

I still felt really embarrassed though. The dj himself didn't even speak to us though, or ask us had we anything slower etc. Plugged out our headphones and that was it. Lesson learned for us though really.

[Max Kane]

Promoters have to take their share of the blame for booking people in the wrong slots. PaSSion used to get the ticket sellers to take slots based on how many tickets they had sold and on nothing else! How ridiculous!

I used to request to be on early anyway due to my sound but they did often get me on second set, which was great when someone playing before me knew what they were doing.

It's a balance really, you've gotten the gig based on what you are playing (or at least you should have) and then you get put on in a totally alien set time. Ideally DJs should be able to change their sound but in some cases; why would they want to play at that time if it means playing music that they don't really like? (Carl will definitely input on that as I know it drives him mad) and also they are not likely to be very good at playing that sound.

Case in point a very, very good DJ I know was booked to play before me, despite him playing 136+ stuff. He was very savvy and changed his whole set/sound to play prog but he only knew the mainstream stuff and it was almost an anthem bashing prog set - completely pointless!

PaSSion were bastards for it as well as they only ever released set times two days before (to the DJs as well as to the public) making it very difficult to adjust the tracks you were taking with you

[Briggsy]

The only problem is that they put them on at 10pm and the guys are so clueless that they start smashing it out at 137+

This is one thing that really annoys me - and something that J00F and John Askew used to rant about quite often in their infamous outbursts too. I just don't get it. I'm not sure if its always down to being clueless - I think, on occasions, its just some of them being ignorant/arrogant and just wanting to "do their thing". They think their making an impression or "rocking the place" because they've hoofed it out early, or anthem bashed for an hour - when in fact, they're just making themselves look stupid. Then there are those that play leaked illegal downloads at big events two months before they're released and then think they're a hero and making an impression because they're playing it before anyone else. One of my old mates played a leaked Genix tune at Nu:Passion weeks before it was released (with Genix present at that event). Fail! I'm not sure whether she was brave or just downright stupid.

Thankfully, because my style was generally quite pacey and hard, I used to play last and never had the problem of DJs playing too fast before me - apart from one occasion when I was playing at an event in Loughborough and one of the Nu:Passion guys was on before me and finished a Trance set at 147bpm!?!

It's a balance really, you've gotten the gig based on what you are playing (or at least you should have) and then you get put on in a totally alien set time. Ideally DJs should be able to change their sound but in some cases; why would they want to play at that time if it means playing music that they don't really like? (Carl will definitely input on that as I know it drives him mad) and also they are not likely to be very good at playing that sound.

Yeah, that does drive me mad. I've heard so many DJs that will play any style just to get a gig - and it shows in their sets. They become "jack of all trades, master of none" DJs. There are a few that are brilliant whatever they play - but very few. I feel that if you "specialise" in something, you'll know all of your tunes inside out, you'll "feel" your set more, and you'll be able to give 100%. If you play every genre and style imaginable, and download tons of tunes each week, its inevitable that you can't possibly know all of those tunes inside out. I hear so many mixes and podcasts where DJs "kill the energy" in sets because they let far too much intro and outro of tunes play - and I think the only reason for that is because they're not 100% comfortable with their tunes and unsure of where the 'mix points' are - therefore, they go for the play it safe option of leaving the mixing until it gets to the part of the tunes where there's not much going on. The result = a really boring mix with lots of drops in energy.

I think a bit of flexibility is required - I always carried a few "crossover" tunes with me so that if a DJ before me finished a slot slower than expected, I could "bridge the gap" with a few crossover tunes until I could bring the tempo up - but I think its unfair to ask any DJs that play 128bpm prog to hammer out a 142bpm set - or a 142bpm DJ to play a 128bpm warm-up set. I once got accused of being 'arrogant' and 'thinking i'm bigger than I am' because I turned down the opportunity of warming-up for a "Fire It Up" night at The Syndicate a few years ago. I'm not arrogant, I don't think i'm anything special as a DJ, and I certainly don't think i'm bigger than I am. Nobody knows who I am when they seem my name on a flyer. I've never played any really big gigs, never played alongside any major DJs or for big brands, and never begged or spammed for gigs. I wait for them to come to me - and then I politely decline the ones that don't suit my style, and accept the ones that are ideal for me. I was always been quite selective over gigs and only played certain gigs because a) I don't really feel slower-paced music, so therefore i'd be shit at playing a warm-up gig because I wouldn't really enjoy it enough to give 100% There are Djs out there that do enjoy that music and would therefore be better at it (and more deserving) than me - so i'd be taking up a slot that someone else would love to play.

I don't think thats being arrogant or thinking i'm "bigger than I am" - I think its being fair and honest. I don't see the point in me playing something I don't enjoy, then playing a poor set because i'm not enjoying myself, and then spoiling other peoples nights out as a result - when there is someone else available that specialises in that particular time slot that could play an amazing set.

[JasonB]

Talking of warm up dj's that don't have a clue always takes me back to 2004 time when I got in free at a club in Bath with Greg Downey as the headliner back during his Scream days, the 1stguy on it was his 1st time playing in a club, and of course his record box was full of peak time anthems, he played 9-10pm, and by half past he had banged out Armin's mix of Motorcycle, even the DJ after him Shaunie toned it down a bit when he took over!

[gamesgaryjp]

I used to love listening to Jules, i haven't listened for a few years now because the music scene is in a poor state. Trance has been crap since 2003 when vocals became the 'in' thing, especially male.

Everyone's tunes started to go bland and boring, and this theme carries on all the way to the present day, except it's 10x worse now. Armin, Tiesto, Lange, Push etc... all started to go boring after this time to the point i can't recognize their sound anymore.

I wouldn't dream of listening to any of these idiots and their radio shows now, pure dull tripe from start to finish. 100% electro whether the dj is playing house or trance, it's all ruled by electro. Don't get me started on Michael Woods.....

I agree with some of the comments on here too, everyone are in it for the money and exposure, basically any young trance producers track isn't 'worth' playing unless the kids have heard it on A State Of Trance.

An example of this kind of ethic, is with Oen Bearen, he has been making some decent uplifting trance the past couple of years, and for him to get 'noticed' and had a track on ITWT, it had to be a shitty electro trance track. Proving you have to sell out your soul and create what the in sound is to be anybody.

[Briggsy]

I think to say its been crap all the way through from 2003 is a little unfair - It did have a drop in 2003 - but to be fair, it did pick up again for a short while. 2005 was fairly good, and 2006 was a particularly strong year and there were some excellent vocal free tunes around - but it did start to go downhill again from late 2008 onwards.

I guess it depends what sort of stuff you're into really. 2006 was "the year for 140bpm+ vocal-less driving Trance" - so it was right up my street. 2007 seemed to be a year for the mid-paced Tech-Trance stuff similar to what Richard Durand, Randy Katana, Mac Zimms, etc were releasing. 2008 was far too overloaded with light, uplifting Trance with girly vocals (what I refer to as Anjuna-esque girly shite ) - and then from late 2008 onwards, Trance just seems to have lost its identity. 95% of Trance DJs started playing really slow sets, Trance productions started becoming more and more 'Housey' (and developed the rather gay name of 'Trouse') - and productions in general just seem rather unimaginitive and 'copycat' or Swedish House Mafia-esque. if you compare Trance now, to Trance from 10 years ago, its like a completely different genre now. I can't think of any other genre that has changed as drastically as Trance has.

There was quite a lot of instrumental tunes around during 2005-2007. I've never been a huge fan of vocals. In my opinion, vocals aren't needed unless they "make" the tune. For example, "Silence" by Delerium would never have worked without a vocal. These days though, it seems that vocals are used just for the sake of having a vocal. I've heard some tunes that would have sounded amazing without the vocal - but for me, the vocal just spoilt it. If producers are going to do that, they should at least release the dub version too for those that don't like vocals - especially in the digital era when it doesn't cost any extra to release a dub mix.

Anyway, on a side note, its a good job I don't work for a music magazine such as DJ Mag. I don't think my descriptions of "gay Trouse" and "Anjuna-esque shite" would go down too well with the "Trancefamily".

#Trousefamily

[lyndon]

i've always thought that i've come into the scene just as the music i loved, the music that made me want to dj was dying out. when i turned 18 in 2006. i'm 23 now, but in the late 90's and especially the early 2000's is where most of the best music i've ever heard was released. i was too young to go out back in 2000/1 of course, so i used to listen to pete tong and judge jules. plus a pirate station that broadcast around here called groove fm from dudley played some good stuff too (depending on what dj was on).

like mentioned above, i used to WANT to listen to jules and the other dj's. i'd have a track that they played on my mind all week and wouldn't rest until i had the vinyl, i was on my decks every single day. now i have the best equipment i've ever had and it collects dust for a week until it's time to get some mixes done. unless i get inspired by some old shows from jules and co and get the old vinyl out.

the worst thing is for me is feeling out of place with people around my own age, they'd never even heard of tiesto (the 2001 version) or knew what he even did back then. most people under 25 don't understand the music from 10 years ago, they regard 'oldskool' as 2007 for christs sake! what they hear of trance is the shell it seems to be today instead of it's glory days, so they instantly dismiss it as crap and listen to dubstep. the lack of respect for older dance music among the younger people pisses me right off, if it wasn't for the stuff made over the last 20 years the music they love now wouldn't be there.

like most dance music now, it sounds truly repetative and out of ideas. it's becoming a right chore to go through all the podcasts, radio shows & beatport to find something that sticks out to me. which is rare.

it's sadly rare that i meet people who appreciate the music that makes me tick even years on. they all seem to be in their 30's now and have moved on and grown tired of it all.

[Max Kane]

plus a pirate station that broadcast around here called groove fm from dudley played some good stuff too (depending on what dj was on).

Ah I remember Groove FM (I used to live in Sedgley). There were occasionally some fantastic DJs on there (In between the UK Garage shows). I used to have a tape from Danny Soto recorded from Groove around 1999 which was one of the best trance mixes I had ever and have ever listened to.

[milkybarkid]

the worst thing is for me is feeling out of place with people around my own age, they'd never even heard of tiesto (the 2001 version) or knew what he even did back then. most people under 25 don't understand the music from 10 years ago, they regard 'oldskool' as 2007 for christs sake! what they hear of trance is the shell it seems to be today instead of it's glory days, so they instantly dismiss it as crap and listen to dubstep. the lack of respect for older dance music among the younger people pisses me right off, if it wasn't for the stuff made over the last 20 years the music they love now wouldn't be there.

Funny, I was just reading a thread the other day, where people were arguing over whether anything whether anything after 1995 was oldschool. The vast majority were of the opinion it wasn't. I was quite shocked that dance music that is 15 years old is not considered old school, never mind, that tunes four years old are!

They are also of the opinion that trance turned shit when it became popular towards the end of the decade, which we would consider it's strongest. They consider trance the old goa stuff, Noom Records etc. They don't recognise the era we consider it's golden period trance at all.

[Max Kane]

Funny, I was just reading a thread the other day, where people were arguing over whether anything whether anything after 1995 was oldschool. The vast majority were of the opinion it wasn't. I was quite shocked that dance music that is 15 years old is not considered old school, never mind, that tunes four years old are!

Those who seem to think that 2007 stuff is "old school" are most likely the dickheads who keep buying Guetta albums and claiming that they are into "trance" :facepalm:

[milkybarkid]

Man, you wanna see those old school heads I referred to. They take it so serious. It's like the polar opposite of this place a lot of the times. People who know id's from old tapes and sets, but won't name them because they don't want people to know, or they own a copy themselves and don't want people seeking out a copy for themselves.

Kinda defeats what the scene was supposed to be about for me. Especially for those back in the 'loved up' explosion they went through.

[Max Kane]

Purists of any movement are usually very protective of it - but an example like that one is ridiculous

[Number2Fan]

Old skool is an actual genre of dance music impo. However my DJ friend (radio DJ) calls anything from the 80's old school and he literally just means old good tunes. When I talk to a fellow raver though if we say old skool we mean anything from acid house, techno, trance, house, jungle and old skool DnB! (between 1988-1994)

[lyndon]

plus a pirate station that broadcast around here called groove fm from dudley played some good stuff too (depending on what dj was on).

Ah I remember Groove FM (I used to live in Sedgley). There were occasionally some fantastic DJs on there (In between the UK Garage shows). I used to have a tape from Danny Soto recorded from Groove around 1999 which was one of the best trance mixes I had ever and have ever listened to.

you would be interested in this if you don't already know about it:-

http://www.thepiratearchive.net/groove.html

i scanned the airwaves the other day, and it's all chavvy speed garage and r&b. since groove went there's been no replacement for the last 10 years sadly.

the worst thing is for me is feeling out of place with people around my own age, they'd never even heard of tiesto (the 2001 version) or knew what he even did back then. most people under 25 don't understand the music from 10 years ago, they regard 'oldskool' as 2007 for christs sake! what they hear of trance is the shell it seems to be today instead of it's glory days, so they instantly dismiss it as crap and listen to dubstep. the lack of respect for older dance music among the younger people pisses me right off, if it wasn't for the stuff made over the last 20 years the music they love now wouldn't be there.

Funny, I was just reading a thread the other day, where people were arguing over whether anything whether anything after 1995 was oldschool. The vast majority were of the opinion it wasn't. I was quite shocked that dance music that is 15 years old is not considered old school, never mind, that tunes four years old are!

They are also of the opinion that trance turned shit when it became popular towards the end of the decade, which we would consider it's strongest. They consider trance the old goa stuff, Noom Records etc. They don't recognise the era we consider it's golden period trance at all.

i accept that people regard different times of music as old school, as long as they don't get too uptight about it. if a track is good, it's good in my opinion. i don't care if the people who were 20 when it came out are in their late 30's by now. but it's as i mentioned above, it's the lack of respect that pisses me off. becuase it's not the 'in thing' they regard it as crap and no good. they fail to realise that if they were at the age they are at now, 10 years ago, then they would be doing the same as everyone else back then.

maybe the fact that i was listening to trance 10 + years ago helps me understand and love it, plus older music before it to about 91. i see people about today trying to get in with the trendy lot of dance music, and i remember them in 2000 dressed in black listening to slipknot & limp bizkit. a word of dance music to them back then and they wouldn't of even listened.